The President hinted yesterday that he’s planning on using an Executive Order to shut down mail-in balloting. Of course the Axis is going bonkers, although they would probably be going bonkers if Trump said that he wanted to make mail-in balloting universal across America—whatever he says, does or wants to do is by definition evil, you see. Also naturally, the President paired his warning with his usual off-the cuff exaggerations, giving foes wonderful targets for tangential attacks. No, the U.S. isn’t the only nation or even one of just a few nations to use mail-in ballots, as CNN and others were quick to note in “Nyah nyah nyah! He lied again!” fashion, to which my response is “So the Hell what?” Both “everybody does it” and “everybody doesn’t do it” are invalid rationalizations.
The Multiple Sclerosis News Network this morning felt that a strong argument against Trump’s war on mail-in balloting is that he urged voters to use the device to vote for him and Republicans in 2024. Stupid pundits appeal to stupid people: of course he did. That was the system in use: Trump foolishly hamstrung his own campaign by telling Republicans not to vote by mail in 2020. The Axis advocates of insecure elections (all the better to cheat you with!) also say that the fact that Trump won the popular vote in 2024 (by a slim 1.5% margin) proves that he is wrong about mail-in ballots and that the system doesn’t favor Democrats.
One has to be really, really dense to be persuaded by that one. Trump, a man with previous experience as President and, compared to the Biden-Harris term, a successful four years on his record, only squeaked out a narrow victory against, yes, I know I keep writing this but its true, the least qualified, most incompetent Presidential candidate of a major party since at least 1872. Did phony mail-in votes save Kamala from the landslide she and the Democrats so richly deserved? We’ll never know, but I believe there is a strong likelihood that this is what transpired.
Finally, we are hearing the time-tested Democrat refrain that voting fraud doesn’t exist. That’s one more reason to be suspicious of the party’s love for mail-in balloting. Voting fraud is nearly impossible to investigate and prove after an election, and it has ever been thus. That is not, and has never been, a logical justification for not tightening voting security.
Mail-in voting is an inherently untrustworthy system. There is no case to be made that it isn’t. How do officials know that the alleged voter is the one who actually filled out the ballot? They don’t, and there is no way for them to know. How can the chain of custody of the ballots be verified? It can’t be. How do we know illicit votes haven’t been dumped in with the real ballots, or that mail-in ballots haven’t been “disappeared”? We don’t. It’s a bad, irresponsible, unethical system that prioritizes “access” to the ballot box over the integrity of elections, just as the Democratic Party’s effort to prevent voter IDs does.
As if that weren’t enough, the use of mail-in ballots delays the process of vote-counting and adds days to the task of figuring out who won, with those days providing more opportunity for chicanery. It also undermines the democracy-affirming civic ritual of requiring each citizen to assert his or her dedication to the Republic by hauling their butts to a polling place once every two years and be an engaged, responsible American. I would hope that President Trump would pair his efforts to kill mail-in balloting with making elections days national holidays.
Over at Althouse, the red-pilled liberal law professor excoriates The New Republic for its absurd attack on Trump’s opposition to mail-in voting headlined, “Angry Trump Accidentally Blurts Out Unnerving New Plot to Rig Midterms/Donald Trump just gave away his own game.” It’s like shooting fish in a barrel: the faux outrage for the Left on this issue is so hypocritical and transparent. Still, Althouse does a good job on the fish.
Like much of the President’s proactive campaign to use his power to fix as many problems as he can as fast as he can, his assault on mail-in voting is for the benefit of all Americans and the nation. That it is seen as a partisan effort just tells you which party right now fears fair elections.
Ethics Alarms 
Oh – a mail-in balloting post – time to dust off the manifesto.
I live in Colorado. We’ve had Mail-in balloting for decades, it works pretty good. However, I’m a corporate compliance and operations auditor. Mail in balloting isn’t designed well. Neither is in person balloting. As with everything in life, a well designed well functioning compromise is needed.
The correct solution to voting is as follows: Mail-out ballots to everyone. All voters complete their ballots within the 3 weeks preceeding to and including election day. Ballots must be submitted, in person, with ID and marked off from the voter rolls. If you have a driver’s license / state ID, that process can be way expedited because they come with these fancy barcodes to pull up your information instantly. Then you just have the election worker doing a face-to-face comparison of the ID. Perhaps a validation sticker is printed and placed on the external secrecy sleeve envelope. Once tallying begins, the ballot is separated from the secrecy envelope and voting selections become anonymized.
The end. WTF are we doing???
Excellent system. With that, most of my objections to MIB would be addressed.
Maybe even one more tweak – the voter, after being vetted and approved, takes their own ballot and inserts it through the tabulation computer themself where it is then stacked and preserved in bundles of the collected voting ballots. It gets back to the problem of whether the voting machine is tabulating correctly or if it’s been corrupted.
To me, that’s still the weakest part of the whole process – the tabulation and the software. I lack the requisite technological savvy to understand how to safeguard software. If there’s a system that’s built, it can be coded to be manipulated at some point. It’s too risky to require co-conspirators at each precinct; loose lips sink ships and all, so the malicious code would have to be something self driving. You’d want to audit proof it, so you want the tabulator to work correctly up until “game-time” where it tilts the scales the way you want.
If it were me, I’d leave my outlier stronghold alone. Sure, I’ve got a 65% precinct in my favor – and that’s the one they’ll claim was rigged and put all their focus. I’m going to rig all the precincts not in my favor to make them small margin losses; not enough votes to overcome my stronghold.
Two observations:1) If voters have to bring their ballots to a polling place, it doesn’t really matter that they were mailed out. All voters still have to show up at a polling place and the system doesn’t really accommodate absentee ballots. I would argue that the system you describe isn’t a “mail-in” system at all.
2) There is an easy way to ensure integrity of vote-counting machines which is very simple and very hard to defeat precisely because of how low-tech it is. Every machine prints a line out on paper for each ballot. It can be encoded and it need not be easily human-readable, but once committed to paper, no amount of hacking in the world can reach outside the confines of the electronic world and erase the ink on the paper. That hard copy paper-trail can be used to audit the machine’s output at any time.
–Dwayne
I would argue that the system you describe isn’t a “mail-in” system at all.
You don’t have to argue this because that’s exactly what I’m proposing. Even though I’ve received my ballot for 25 years by mail, I have never once put a stamp on it to return it by mail. Why would I risk it being mishandled by untold numbers of people rather than just bring it to the final destination?
The benefit of this system is that people have the time to research and make selections and precincts aren’t bound by voting booth space. Check people in like you always do and move them on with their day.
I like this system so far. There are a few details that we’d need to work out, though. What method do we use for ensuring each voter only turns in one ballot? Can legitimate voters temporarily out of state (or out of country) receive their ballots remotely and turn them in locally?
I live in Colorado and most of my adult life I’ve used mail in ballots. I realize there are major concerns that should be addressed, but I like it overall. They use signature verification and tracking to confirm ballots are received. I think it makes me a more informed voter when I can take my time without knowing someone is hovering outside the curtain. I know it also means I vote more often. Sometimes all that’s on the ballot is the school board. I wouldn’t have bothered driving the 20 miles to vote for that.
I prefer to vote in person on Election Day. I don’t trust a surprise revelation or some stupid comment not to drop about a candidate in the days leading up to it.
As for Election Day being a national holiday, sure. But only white collar employees will get it off anyway. Anyone in a service industry will still be working just as they still work on most federal holidays anyway. That poor woman who was filmed running an entire Burger King by herself will definitely not get time off to vote in person that day.
Part of me thinks that if we actually closed down every business and made working illegal on that day – then everyone would be in the streets and riots and looting would break out. Also – your fire, police, hospitals would still have to function at some level. It’s best that 3 hrs still be the standard for required paid time-off to vote.
It’s not hard at all to imagine a national holiday for the Presidential election and some accommodation being made for ALL those employed, regardless of position.
Hospital/fire/police/nursing homes already run round-the-clock services, so there should be no debilitating issue adjusting the schedule such that everyone gets an eight-hour window to vote.
It’s 1 day out of 1,460 days.
Those in service-type industries – gas stations, restaurants, retail, etc. – why can’t they be completely shut down? People can get gas and groceries, or eat at their favorite restaurant the day before/after the election…can’t they?
It’s 1 day out of 1,460 days.
Why can’t a law mandating that all business pay their employees – just those scheduled to work on Election Day – for that day off?
It’s 1 day out of 1,460 days.
How hard is this…really? Everyone that is physically able should vote in person on Election Day. The government’s role in this – since they can’t mandate how states manage the election – should be to remove major barriers to voting in person. A national holiday is a massive step in that direction.
Of course there are some exceptions – nursing home residents, etc. – but most people who “major” on the edge cases and throw up all kinds of road-blocks with them aren’t really interested in the integrity of the voting system.
But so many of the voting irregularities stem from the system trying to make silly accommodation for the voters. It is the civic duty of the voters to participate…it is we who should be willing to make accommodation to the system.
“Those in service-type industries – gas stations, restaurants, retail, etc. – why can’t they be completely shut down? People can get gas and groceries, or eat at their favorite restaurant the day before/after the election…can’t they?”
That same argument is made when people suggest that such businesses be closed on Thanksgiving, Christmas, Independence Day or other significant holidays. The argument is always that public servants, such as hospital workers, cab drivers and police officers who must work those days need those services open.
If not one day out of 1460 days, why not one day out of 365? Or 2, 3 or 4 days out of 365?
But let’s play devil’s advocate here and say that all of those businesses are closed on Election Day. How many would actually take the time to vote?
I’ve long suspected that, just as fewer and fewer people take part in Memorial Day, Veteran’s Day and Independence Day celebrations these days, the number of people who actually do anything on Martin Luther King Day or Great Americans Day are minimal.
Aren’t they just free days off for kids to play video games at home while their parents either sleep in or have to work anyway if they have service industry jobs?
I think Election Day would be the same. Most people who want to vote and value voting will find a way to do so even if it means getting up early and hitting the polls at 6 AM (which is what I do).
I’m going to add some Canadian Content here.
I think we run better elections here than you do down there, although it varies by state. And that’s kind of the problem: It varies by state. While that’s a feature and not a bug, it means that people interested in how the electoral sausage is made have to learn the process for 50 different systems, and that’s before you go one step further to things like party nomination processes. Those 50 systems all have unique strengths and vulnerabilities, and it’s fairly obvious that some of the systems with weaker controls are run by Democrats.
And the why on that is obvious: They want more people to vote. They don’t really care who the person they’re inducing is, because Republican voters tend to be more faithful voters, and their internal calculus is that every marginal voter they can squeeze out will likely disproportionately benefit them. It’s probably easier to get out 1000 votes and assume that they will benefit you 55/45 than it is to specifically target and induce 100 purely Democrat votes. And that has the benefit of working out: Generally, the better voter turnout is, the better Democrats do. Which is a rough pill to swallow for Republicans: Conservatism in America is probably even more of a minority position than it seems at the polls, the only saving grace is that your opponents are lazy.
Because of that, they demonize a whole lot of controls that the rest of the world view as pillars of a functioning Democracy.
In Canada, voter ID is uncontroversial. Your government issued ID is required, and the ID is required to have an address that matches the poll. If your address doesn’t match, you still need the ID, but you also need two pieces of stamped and delivered mail to your name to an address in the riding, and then you fill out a declarative form.
We have early voting, where you can go to a couple of early voting stations, and they’ll ID you and mark you off the rolls before election night. Mail in balloting is almost unheard of, we have a system for people overseas, but the vast majority of those ballots are for active service people.
When voting, we are given a ballot. We go behind a screen. We mark the ballot. We drop the ballot in the collection box. They give us a sticker. Those ballots are counted and recounted, while supervised by volunteers from major parties. Barring some incredibly close calls, we generally know the results that night, or by the next morning at the latest.
There’s a joke I heard, I think there might be a grain of truth to it, but I don’t know for sure; During the space race between the Americans and the Soviets, it was understood that pens wouldn’t work in space because of the lack of gravity. In America, NASA spent scads and scads of money developing a pen that would write in space. In Russia, they packed pencils. I don’t understand why America has these deeply complicated counting machines and procedures. The cost-benefit of them has to be deeply negative, you don’t get better results out of them, and they seem to result in more uncertainty than manually counted ballots.
I really do think that a uniform system across America is necessary, but I’m not sure how that would be constitutionally navigable. We’ll see what Trump does.
What to do about the elderly and disabled who might not be able to physically get out to the polls? What about people in the hospital on election day? Or in traction? And, yes, what about the non-white-collar workers who can’t get the time off, even if he makes it a federal holiday? Should we be forced, like the fictionalized Caesar Rodney, to get out of our cancer beds, our rehabs, our infectious disease beds?
Required paid time off to vote?! Don’t make me laugh. Not in this capitalist hellscape.
1. Special accommodations for those legitimately without access are not difficult to imagine. Vote harvesters routinely visit rest homes and other facilities to get votes from those who are too ill or far gone to know who or what they are voting for.
2. It’s a progressive delusion that system should be weakened and distorted to accommodate special cases at the cost of the system’s ability to fill its main function. Better to have a small group of evenly divided voters who can’t vote than a system that has no integrity.
3. Polls open before most people have to get to work and are open after most people get out. Inconvenient? A hassle? Being able to participate in one’s government should be considered worth that. No system will accommodate everyone, but whatever system it is has to be secure—and mail-in ballots aren’t.
“Vote harvesters routinely visit rest homes and other facilities to get votes from those who are too ill or far gone to know who or what they are voting for.“
Really? Hmm, who do we know was in the hospital recently? Certainly not someone too ill or far gone to know who or what they are voting for. Certainly not!
And I guess you are not proposing that everyone in every hospital, rehab, nursing home, or bedridden at home is too ill or far gone to know who or what they are voting for. Certainly not! Why that would be illogical and probably one of your famous fallacies.
No, but there are many, many who are not capable of voting by themselves, so they get “help.” For example, There is much history of mental institutions having patients taken on outings to polling places, after getting instructions on who to vote for. Again: there is too much history of cheating in elections, and the more holes in the security, the more cheating there will be. Can’t get to the polls this time? Better luck next time. Better to have one legitimate voter miss out that to have many voters have their votes nullified by fraud. Looser voting procedures mean more untrustworthy election results. That fact should take priority over “what about…?” scenarios.
oooh! Cheap shot!
Two thoughts:
1)As usual the Babylon Bee is on top of the issue: https://babylonbee.com/news/dems-say-mail-in-ballot-ban-will-place-undue-hardship-on-dead-voters?utm_source=The%20Babylon%20Bee%20Newsletter&utm_medium=email
2)I don’t know that the federal government has the constitutional authority to dictate to the 50 states how they must conduct elections. If the federal government doesn’t have the authority, the president cannot have it.
Third, I really like Tim’s proposed system. I could add to it that you could have an early voting period with the same procedure. I would really rather we all voted on election day, but I think that ship has pretty much sailed.
Fourth, there is bound to be a way to allow disabled, bedbound, hospitalized people to vote. A couple ideas — the government already pays poll workers to work the polls. Perhaps it could hire folks to go around taking in ballots from those folks. Or, perhaps, you get partisan teams — one from each party — to go around and do the same (although the risks there are obvious).
At a work meeting someone tried to defend mail in ballots. It was the only way her mother with dementia could vote. 99.9% of the other people were stunned for a moment. Then we commented, almost simultaneously, “Then she shouldn’t vote.” The original speaker was shocked! Shocked! That we didn’t support her basically getting two votes. We didn’t care how she voted. One per person thank you.
I love vote by mail! Lived in Colorado for 17 years, and the past several decades in Oregon, so it’s been a LONG time since I voted in person.
That said, I never actually mail my ballot — I use the dropbox inside our Town Hall which is emptied every day by an election worker.
Oregon uses signature verification and tracks ballots so you can log in to see when your ballot has been received. The system will only accept one vote from each registered voter, and if the signature doesn’t match it goes into the “curing” system — some people’s signatures do change over time — and you can also see on line if this has happened and you have to go in person to get it verified.
I much prefer this to voting machines, some of which (but maybe this is no longer true? has this been fixed?) don’t even give you a validated receipt showing what choices the machine registered so you are immediately alerted if there were errors (?) Those who use voting machines, what has your experience been with receipts/validation?
Yup – we’re both on the same wavelength – but I still have this nagging feeling about tabulation. Particularly with our drop boxes, etc – like, I still don’t know that the ballot I dropped off, when opened, wasn’t swapped with a pre-filled ballot the election worker was holding on the side. I’m sure if I actually took the time to see the behind the scenes inner-workings of how the ballots are secured and monitored for “swaps” “injections” I would be satisfied – but until I make that effort, I’ll always have this nagging feeling.
In North Carolina, when I go to the polling place, I get my ballot, fill in all the circles as appropriate. Then I take the ballot and feed it into ballot box, which I think validates that it’s a proper ballot, and keeps a count of how many people have voted so far that day.
We have optical scanner to read the ballots, so you have to blacken a circle to designate your choice.
At the end of the day, there are 1 or 2 poll workers from each party, along with the election judge for that precinct who witness the ballots being removed from the box and then, I believe, run through the counting machine. It’s possible I’m wrong about the last — the ballots could be sent to the county to be counted, but I think it’s done at the precinct.
Early voting ballots, I think, get fed into the counting machines either earlier in the day or right when the polls close.
I don’t recall any real problems with this procedure and typically we know almost all the results by around midnight or so. The state has a website where you can see all the results as they’re reported. I use that to see how many seats the GOP is getting in the state legislature, as well as the statewide judicial races. It’s pretty easy to use, once you done it a time or two.
Of course, there are mail-in (especially military) ballots that come in after election day, as well as provisional ballots. We do get a count on election day of how many provisional ballots have been issued.