This elegant Comment of the Day by CEES VAN BARNEVELDT is short by COTD standards, but I had to honor it. Yes, the comment echoes a theme that has been covered on Ethics Alarms many times, because I am an artist myself as well as a critic and connoisseur of art, and because I feel passionately that art of all kinds has an independent life from that of the artist. It is a Cognitive Dissonance Scale challenge, to be sure, when an artist’s horrible words, views, conduct or character are underwater on one’s personal CD scale and that artist’s creative output is high in positive territory. But one has to try, and try hard, to separate the two. So much of my favorite music was written by flawed, cold, even sick people. So much of the literature I love, and that has formed a great deal of my perspective on life, was authored by terrible human beings, except for that spark of brilliance. I believe with all my heart in Thomas Jefferson’s vision of America, democracy and liberty, but find his personal conduct and hypocrisy nauseating. And don’t get me started on the performing arts: to take the most prominent example, I have spent a large chunk of my life celebrating, admiring, interpreting and promoting the talents and artistic output of Danny Kaye, who was, as I discovered late in the process, a misanthropic sociopath. That did not change however, the joy he brought to millions, his delightful performances in “The Court Jester,” “Hans Christian Anderson” or “White Christmas,” or the glory of Danny’s dazzling renditions of “Tchaikovsky” or “Anatole of Paris.”
Here is CEES’s Comment of the Day on the post, “Rob Reiner’s Legacy, Part I: The Artist,” which begins with a quote from Chris Marschner’s comment:
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“My ethical guide tells me to never celebrate someone’s death.”
My normal preference is to celebrate somebody’s life. In Reiner’s case there is enough to celebrate, and a good way to celebrate his life is to watch his movies. I own a copy of “This is Spinal Tap” (brilliant comedy!), enjoyed “A Few Good Men” but I still have to see his other movies, so I will prioritize these at Amazon Prime.
I have the same attitude about Philip Seymour Hoffman. A couple of years ago there was a retrospective at his movie career at the George Eastman house in Rochester NY where I live, and you see all those brilliant movies, and it makes you sad about his death. Same about John Belushi, plus many great musicians who are part of the 27 Club (Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin, Brian Jones, Kurt Cobain, Kurt Cobain).
I also prefer to separate the art from the moral character of the artist. There are a lot of negative things to say about Roman Polanski and Woody Allen, but definitively made great movies. And I am going to dig up Phil Spector’s Christmas CD and play it loudly at December 25th.
But some people do not have a life that deserves to be celebrated. People like Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler and his henchmen. Instead, we celebrated their death without any moral guilt. I would say that celebrating their death is morally required!
And then there are the difficult cases, such as George Floyd, about whose life I have nothing positive to say, and whose death bedeviled the USA during the time of COVID, and about whom I still believe that he should not have died.
Ethics Alarms 
Very well appreciated for the honor, Jack.
Twenty years from now we will have another administration, and nobody will care by then about whoever thought what about Donald Trump, as that is for the history books. But we still have Rob Reiner’s movies to enjoy. And we will also remember with sadness the way he died.
I went to Amazon Prime this night, looking for a movie. I bought “The Princess Bride”, but in the meantime I watched another movie, namely “Twelve Angry Men” with Henry Fonda. As this movie deals with a trial with a son as defendant in the murder of his father, I think this was a fitting choice.
As I am typing I am listening to Frank Rosolino on trombone. Frank Rosolino shot his two sons of 11 and 7, one of them died and the other survived but was blind for the rest of his life; Frank committed suicide. What brings a man to want to kill his sons or kill his father, and then proceed to commit this unthinkable act?
The news reports that Rob Reiner’s son has struggling with a drug addiction since he was a teenager. He was in his thirties and his life never got on the rails. His parents tried everything, from abundant love to tough love, and nothing worked. Seventeen stints in rehab and it did not work. And then it ends this way. A coworker of mine faced the same trials with her daughter. After a year of taking care of her daughter who suffered heart and brain issues she died on the streets at age thirty. I am not going into family dynamics here as I do not understand how people get addicted to drugs or kill family.
Rob Reiner may have disagreed with me on this, but I am glad that Trump is bombing those drug cartels out of the sea as these criminals need killing, as these drugs kill 100,000 a year in the USA, and Rob Reiner’s family is victim to drug crime as well. Too bad that only addresses the supply side of the problem.
Congratulations CVB
Just for clarification, my point about celebrating a death was not to suggest that I agreed or supported the despots listed. I can be morally outraged at behaviors and will celebrate the ending of those behaviors and if death is the only means to accomplish that goal then I can accept it. That does not mean that I am happy that we had to resort to a killing or enjoy dancing on their grave. Celebrating death is a slippery slope. Many on the left celebrated the death of Charlie Kirk because they were “morally outraged” by his ideas and behaviors. A great number mourned that Trump’s assassin missed. This is what so many have become.
Moral outrage is the rage right now and we need to dial it back a bit. Yesterday’s post condemning Trump’s comments about Rob Reiner was needed, but his comments might be a reflection on what society is becoming; mean, nasty, and narcissistic. You cannot claim Trump is impulsive when all evidence suggests he takes the pulse of public sentiment and then weighs his decision on which side should he fall. I would bet that he felt it would be well received. It was not received well by one of his supporters – me. Trump is human and fallible.
We talk about progressives living in a bubble but are those we consider good, ethical people living in their own bubble thinking that the good and ethical are the norm when in fact they may be in the minority at times? Just a thought on my own observations of human nature in today’s world.
Rob Reiner only spoke his mind. It may have been filled with TDS, but I appreciate the voice of those who, though misguided and in my opinion, completely off the deep-end, actively want our country to do better. Even our host here at EA will tell you the shortcomings of President Donald Trump and how he needs to do better.
With that in mind, it’s extremely easy to separate political viewpoints from the art. He’s the victim of a heinous act, not a perpetrator. Speaking politically is not heinous.
Conversely, consider the case of Chris Benoit. The professional wrestler who was admired, respected, and then killed his child, wife, and self for inexplicable reasons. The WWE company has removed all footage of his matches and his existence as they do not want to be seen as profiting on the likeness of a man guilty of such a heinous act.
In such scenarios, even with Kevin Spacey and Sean Combs (P. Diddy, Puff Daddy) can you truly enjoy the prior art with current knowledge of some of their less heinous (but still heinous) antics? Can you watch Bill Cosby in “Ghost Dad”? It’s all about tolerance.
Some of the acts of these latter mentioned individuals might just be seen as “icky”, but they each have something in their history that is an outright moral failing – and it makes me wonder how easy it is to understand where your money is going if you pay for a piece of media. Who profits when Mein Kampf is republished? Are Cosby’s victims collecting his royalties? Has Spacey made amends with any and all of his victims?
Rob Reiner was not like these other guys. He just spoke his mind, as was his right. That’s just “ick” for people who disagreed with him and completely normal behavior for those who did agree with his viewpoint.
I am going to include Chris’s quote from the original threat:
“My ethical guide tells me to never celebrate someone’s death.”
In my opinion this should be the ethical rule for almost everybody, including those whose life is morally a mixed bag. This thereby includes murderers such as Phil Spector and Frank Rosolino, who both have a musical legacy that cannot be negated by their sins and crimes. That legacy belongs to the ages, and also belongs to us who still enjoy the music.
We should also recognize the positive legacy of those still alive, but have made terrible moral choices. This includes sexual abusers such as Woody Allen, Roman Polanski, Kevin Spacey. The crimes and sins they committed do not negate or detract from the quality of the movies they directed or played in. It would also be unfair to all the other people who worked on those movies. This should also include Bill Cosby, however I understand that people have trouble rewatching his work as there is such a discrepancy with the wholeness of the character he is playing and the real Bill Cosby.
Let’s mention O.J. Simpson here. He is in the Hall of Fame, deservedly so because of his football career. Nobody can take that away from him. Football does not have a character clause for the Hall of Fame. He also has a small movie career. If he had died in a plane wreck in 1992 nobody would question his legacy. But sadly, his life is now defined by the double murder, and his positive sports history and film career is but a footnote.
I do not have a lot of respect for the WWE by memory holing Chris Benoit. This is done for PR reasons only, not for reasons of ethics. Frank Rosolino who committed a similar crime still has his music on Amazon and YouTube.
However, every rule has exceptions. Not everybody’s life has redeeming value. This is true for tyrants and terrorists. We should not feel guilty about rejoicing in their deaths. We also may take grim satisfaction in the execution of a heinous murderer. These executions are often witnessed by the family of the victim(s) to allow for closure.
The Church has doctrines about Eternal Life, but there is also a doctrine about Hell. Hell is not often preached about; we all scare away from this. But when we consider the life and crimes of Hitler, Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussain, and many others, this doctrine may offer some comfort and sense of justice.
You all are more tolerant or forgiving than I am. For me it’s situational. Plenty of Hollywood elites support Democrat causes. Normal behavior. Others have been vile, disgusting, or borderline criminally negligent. People like Madonna, Ashley Judd or Johnny Depp with their thinly veiled threats of violence, Mandy Patinkin or Robert De Niro with their vile rants … I won’t watch or listen to any of their new work. Even acknowledging their craft or brilliance, I just cannot look at them any more.
As for President Trump …. I really wish there were someone who could put the brakes on his baser impulses. I wholeheartedly support most of his policy agenda, his style and bluster leave so much to be desired. No one can defend his rude remarks.
Having said that, I do wonder about his tipping point. A decade of so much abuse by his opponents, the entire Democrat party, some in the Republican base, the tech industry and almost the entire media has got to be taking a toll. At my keyboard it is easy to suggest that as President, he should be more dignified, take the high road. But I haven’t been vilified for the last ten years. And not just vilified – destroyed, bankrupted, indicted, impeached, arrested ….. you all know the list. Maybe he’s tired of having a literal target on his back because of the falsehoods, rantings and TDS lunacy of people like Rob Reiner. And it is facile to suggest that he brings it on himself … some, yes, but certainly not to the extent he’s experiencing.
As for Rob Reiner and his wife …. what a horrible end to a brilliant career. By all accounts they were wonderful, supportive parents. In that last moment, seeing their much loved son attacking … devastating.
What a scourge these drugs are. I’m with Cees – blow those boats out of the water!