As I noted in the previous post, President Trump had an epically unethical week, even for him. I found out about the latest horror on Facebook and “X”, from the post above by my friend Mary Milben, who proved her integrity and courage. Mary, you see, is MAGA’s official songbird. a brilliant soprano who has performed at many Republican functions from coast to coast. She is also an African-American who has suffered criticism for her support of the President as all high-profile black conservatives do. Despite the fact that her prominence, celebrity and livelihood depends on her relationship with the President and his supporters, she immediately spoke out against Trump’s Truth Social account posting of a 62-second video on conspiracy theories about the “stolen” 2020 Presidential election. At the very end was added a non-sequitur section, set to the Tokens’ ‘The Lion Sleeps Tonight,”showing Trump as the Lion King and various Democrats as jungle animals, including Barack and Michelle Obama as…apes.
I regard that as about a half-step, maybe less, from the President calling the former First Couple “niggers.”
After an uproar that I will bet is not going to subside, perhaps ever, the video was taken down. Karoline Leavitt, presumably following orders, took a defiant (and stupid) stance, saying “This is from an internet meme video depicting President Trump as the King of the Jungle and Democrats as characters from the Lion King. Please stop the fake outrage and report on something today that actually matters to the American public.”
You know, like the desperate search for Savannah Guthrie’s missing mother. The President of the United States appearing to compare the most popular African-Americans in the nation and the only black First Couple as sub-human primates isn’t news. Seriously, Karoline?
Ethics Alarms 
No disrespect to your friend, but if that’s “the most racist and offensive post” she’s ever seen, she’s not online very often (which is a good thing). There is definitey a huge generational divide on this issue, and I think that’s part of what’s causing so much controversy (besides the Democrats wanting to paint anything gray as negative). Some people just don’t find that humor funny, and that’s fine.
Let me explain.
Internet culture is pretty crude. People make weird, distorted memes about all kinds of things, and they put people’s faces on different things because they find it amusing. Think of it as 13 year old boy humor. Shows like South Park are also along these lines. It doesn’t show any ill intent to be dumb and edgy. I’m not even that into the crazy world of the internet, but I can see the type of humor it is.
The entire video reeks of that dumb internet humor.
Here is another example.
I watch a guy from South Korea on Tik Tok who makes fun of Americans, and I find it hilarious. He puts on a cowboy hat, changes his voice, and acts overly patriotic with a piece of straw in his teeth. It’s obviously an exaggeration, and I am not offended by it.
A final example is that I’ve had friends from Mexico who would make “white jokes” at me and then I would joke about ICE coming for them. It was all in good fun and actually showed the trust in the other person’s intentions, despite the very crude, offensive humor. If someone on the outside who didn’t know us misheard me or them, they would lose their minds.
Using a racist trope about black Americans in and of itself isn’t racism if you are just being dumb in a meme or stupid video and the racist trope really isn’t “the point”, just like it wouldn’t be racism to me if someone made a video of Trump as a giant “cracker” beating broken by Obama defeating him. I would have the same reaction. It’s just dumb, ill-mannered humor. Ive seen black comedians mimic a “white voice” that sounds stiff and boring. Again, I am NOT offended.
If someone used the trope on purpose and to send a racist message, that’s different.
In the video, Joe Biden is a gorilla and Kamala Harris is a turtle. Trump is a lion. Would it be “less racist” if Obama was a different animal? I suspect the cries would still be pretty loud, just maybe a couple decibals lower because some people would think depicting Obama as any animal would be considered racist.
Now, as President, Trump never should’ve posted anything like that. He should watch the entire video any time he posts anything, just as a matter of course. He makes weird mistakes like this that give ammunition to Democrats unnecessarily. He also seems to enjoy being inflammatory. I’ve always seen him as a little bit of a troll.
It’s not good for the presidency as an instutiton, but on the whole, I prefer a president who is stopping the genital mutilation of minors in the name of gender ideology who sometimes says offensive things to one who is well spoken but advocating for horrible policies. His administration is actually having a large impact in this area.
The only way this is really evidence of racism is if you already think Trump is racist and this is him throwing in a little dog whistle that he can deny later as a political ploy.
I guess I congratulate you for a brave attempt, but no amount of spin can excuse this. I repeat: making a direct analogy between any black person and monkeys, apes or gorillas is per se racism, and very close to the insult “nigger” in peak denigration. If “nigger” is Level 10, the ape/monkey comparison is 9.5. The racist site “chimpmania” isn’t named that by accident. When Southerners pre-Civil War attempted to justify slavery, they presented pseudo-scientific comparisons between Negroes and lower primates to “prove” that Caucasians were a “superior race.” And this trope wasn’t being used by Dave Chappelle, but under the name of the President of the United States. I’d be amazed if any black American didn’t find that image repugnant.
“Look at that little monkey go!” was an infamous, controversial comment made by legendary sportscaster
Howard Cosell during a Monday Night Football broadcast in September 1983, referring to a black player. It nearly ended Cosell’s career…and he was just a sportscaster. Racial sensitivity was far less in the 80s, because Barack Obama hadn’t been President yet and set back race relations decades.
Is it relevant that Biden was also portrayed as an ape?
Only in the sense that it suggests, as Jame Flood and others have said here, that Trump, even if he was responsible for the Obama apes, wasn’t intending to make a racist statement, or didn’t regard the gag that way. But only someone inclined to be generous and give Trump the benefit of the doubt would see it that way, and that doesn’t make the whole episode an example of recklessness, lack of proper care and thought, etc.
Does it matter that the left posted mems depicting Trump as a dull looking ape, or Bush jr as a monkey?
Nope. They aren’t black. Just like calling a guy a “cunt” isn’t misogynist, just vulgar.
I wasn’t alive for the Howard Cosell incident, but my dad told me about it. I wouldn’t say that’s a bit different than the video (and worse), though the “racism” there is a little more complicated.
I think the crux of the issue lies in what you said here:
“I repeat: making a direct analogy between any black person and monkeys, apes or gorillas is per se racism, and very close to the insult “nigger” in peak denigration.”
It seems like you don’t like anyone doing it for any reason, even in political satire or just crude comedy, sort of like a hard line for you that *this type of thing isn’t funny and should never be in a joke.* I think that’s a defensible position, but it would destroy a lot of satire, especially if “body exaggerations based on ‘protected characteristics'” is a line.
In any normal argument or discussion, I would agree with you. There’s no reason to do that, especially given the history.
But for satire or edgy comedy or dumb comedy or whatever label you want to give it, it just doesn’t strike me as as the same.
Consider this.
Imagine the video is the EXACT same, except Obama was portrayed as a hyena or even Scar. Or, perhaps Obama is pumba or timon. Pick any other animal but an ape.
Where does the line in a comedic portrayal of a minority politician cross the line from stupidity to racism?
I don’t think there’s a clear line in comedy, and that’s why I can’t get on the bandwagon on this one. I see a lot of reasonable people like you coming out hard against this, so I’ve tried to think about what I’m missing.
The only thing I can come up with is that there are certain hard lines even comedy shouldn’t cross, especially based on your per se statement.
But even if I grant that point (and assume for the sake of argument posting it was intentional), someone crossing the line in comedy out of stupidity still doesn’t really seem like racism to me except in maybe a literal sense that’s not indicative of any actual racism and more like racial insensitivity.
EXTREMELY well stated. I’d add that Trump’s neither racist, nor anti-Semitic, nor anti-gay, etc. More than anything he’s like a preening NYC queen: thin skinned, emotional, and prone to revenge through catty, often mean, commentary.
The key to understanding him is that he doesn’t hate groups; he hates individuals, and will remind you at any opportunity why he deems said individuals awful. He doesn’t hate Rosie O’Donnell because shes a fat lesbian. He hates her because she was once a friend (recall that she attended his wedding to Melania and, according to Trump, “ate a lot of cake”) and now says mean things about him.* Similarly, his venom for Rob Reiner can be attributed to the fact that he once considered Rob a friend. Without the prior relationship, he never would have made his stupid statement on Rob’s passing.
*Rosie is also extremely dumb, incapable of smiling (best she can muster is a grimace. Seriously, try to find a pic of her smiling), and wildly unappealing, but that’s me editorializing a bit.
If you want to be in Trump’s good graces, just say nice things about him. It’s decidedly not a good character trait but I guess I prefer honest brutality to practiced, insincere, “niceness”. Is it good for the Republic? Probably not, but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t enjoy much of it.
You’re probably right about Trump and he most probably posted that without any racial animus in his own thoughts.
But it’s too well know that comparing black peoples to apes is racist in origin. This isn’t a problem with Trump being a racist. It’s a problem with trump looking like a racist as well as intentionally posting something that is known to be racially offensive.
Exactly, Michael.
When I have doubts (about all things) I turn to Mody who gets my mind back on track:
https://youtu.be/tuyMGSQzLJU?si=3rGTWiOndJqEHEgL
Hmm, Trump looking like a racist, quacking like — excuse me — posting like a racist. Don’t know how a racist walks but maybe associating with racists counts (I’m not counting Fuentes because Trump didn’t know he was coming, or didn’t know who he was , or something). Still, he may be, as he claimed, the least racist President we’ve ever had. That’s admitting to being a racist while claiming it’s not the worst thing.
That’s an interesting observation, HJ! What President could we confidently say wasn’t racist? At least up through Woodrow Wilson, none. Trump’s typically careless wording might, in this case, be profound.
South Park, in it’s usual incisiveness, spoofed this as well. The town flag featured a racially insensitive image and the kids of the town had no idea why the parents were so upset over it because the show goes on to demonstrate that the kids didn’t discern different races in the scene but rather just that a group of people were being bad to one other person.
At some point progressives will have to let go of the idea that we’re a racist nation and actually accept that we really aren’t.
Was Trump so color blind he didn’t notice? I find that hard to believe as a man of his generation should surely be familiar with the blacks-are-apes motif of racist insults. But maybe he knows the country is well past racism that except for all the times Progressives bring race back into the argument.
As for Trump and businessmen – the color most businessmen see is green and green alone. They may have some developed biases or taught biases – but even the most practical and successful businessmen stifle those thoughts they may have inherited from their parents if any particular business contact of another race is partnering with them make them both wildly successful.
And, is a person racist if they *don’t act on* the race based ideas in their minds?
That is to say – at some point, we have to accept that if a particular person can be characterized as a monkey based on their behavior maybe it is indeed actually based on their behavior and not their skin color.
https://ethicsalarms.com/2015/01/20/the-destructive-useful-unethical-presumption-of-bigotry-part-2-the-oscar-snub/#comment-301230
Is there a link somewhere to the original video? I have searched and only find partial representations. Because “everybody” is talking about it, I can trust it is more real than iron clad Russian Collusion evidence. However, when discussing this with others, everyone talks about it but has never watched it
The full clip was on Truth Social but was pulled sometime yesterday. I watched it. It went a full minute or so talking about the 2020 election being stolen and then in the last few seconds showed the Obama clip. I’d bet pretty much anything that Trump was unaware of the end. He lazily saw an “election fraud” clip, didn’t bother watching the whole thing, and just reposted it.
As Michael wrote above, “It’s a problem with trump looking like a racist as well as intentionally posting something that is known to be racially offensive.”
Whatever his faults (and he has many) Trump does not want to be seen as a racist. Honestly, I think he wants everyone to love him and is kind of hurt that so many are “immune to his charms”.
Well, I knew deep down that I would be back. Despite my quibbles, this is a place where I can post my views, and, for the most part, the feedback I get is well worth considering.
I’ll have something to say later about that COTD and some of the comments I got as I was about to take a break.
But, first — Trump is a mega-dunce? I don’t think that’s the case.
To call Trump a dunce for posting a racist comment, especially in light of his previous racist comments and tolerance of racism by others, is to give him a pass. Dunces are not fully accountable for what they say and do; after all, they are stupid, unable to think rationally most of the time. Don’t know what a mega-dunce is, but I suppose they cannot think rationally any of the time.
Trump is not a dunce. But the evil of his posting a racist meme is diminished because he’s labeled as a dunce.
He claims he did not see the entire video clip. We cannot know whether he is lying or not (though history provides a clue). A specific question, which so far as I know has not been asked of him, is whether or not he routinely posts things he does not view or view completely, followed up by what official actions he takes without fully know what he is doing. Mentioning his criticism of Biden’s use of the autopen could help serve to focus his mind on the importance of being in charge and fully aware of his actions.
His view of the matter may be aligned with what his spokeswoman said, that it was just a meme, nothing important. Of course, we don’t know if she cleared that with Trump or just said it on her own? But, considering the criticism he has received in the past for actual and supposed racist comments and shifting the blame to an aide (or people) indicates he knew it was wrong.
He has made many comments that are racist or at least tinged with racism: Haitians eating pets; Mexico sending criminals, bringing drugs (except for some he assumes are good people); referring to non-white nations as shitholes; telling Democratic congresswomen born in the United States to go back where they came from; referring to Elizabeth Warren as Pocahontas; several comments about Somalia including saying Somali immigrants are garbage; and many more.
He routinely tolerates racist comments by others without rebuke, and he appears to be comfortable with the racial profiling by ICE.
He has said he will not apologize to the Obamas, saying he did not make a mistake. Make of that comment what you will.
Well, I guess we could adopt the attitude Josh expressed here, that it’s not the worst thing, that it is routine stuff on the Internet, that it’s just 13-year-old boy humor, that it’s not racist if it wasn’t meant as racism. I say ‘we’, but I sure won’t be adopting any of these ‘no-big-deal’ positions.
Or perhaps, go with James Flood’s position that Trump hates individuals, not racial groups. Yeah, tell that to the Somalis; apparently he hates each and every individual in that ethnicity in Minnesota or Maine. Hogwash.
There is plenty of evidence that indicates Trump has a racist streak and he just doesn’t care. Not dunce-worthy, just evil.
Trump is not a dunce. But the evil of his posting a racist meme is diminished because he’s labeled as a dunce.
To get elected Trump (and his campaign people) had to be aware of the cultural crisis and the demographic crisis on-going in the US. The demographic shift of America as 90% White-European to 60-63% over 50 years is a major shift. See for example: One Mighty and Irresistible Tide: The Epic Struggle Over American Immigration, 1924-1965 by Jia Lynn Yang. I could list a number of books that predict and outline the planned and desired reconstitution of American society as “America” is remodeled into a new nation according to American-Liberal principles.
There very certainly most definitely is an “opposition faction” to this form of Liberalism both in America and perhaps more relevantly in Europe (France, Denmark, Germany etc) and there certainly are intellectuals (in US and Europe) who write coherently on “replacement theory) (see Renaud Camus Enemy of the Disaster). I could list you about 5 different names of American intellectuals very concerned about the demographic decline that will result in Whites becoming a minority in the US in. Decade or two.
That is too easy a designation since, when other countries are examined, concern over “invasion” and “replacement” are considered fairly and humanely.
My suggestion is : read more and understand more of what goes on “under the floorboards” about these issues. I suggest reading those similar to ones I mention but also Kathleen Belew, Tobert P. Jones, Paul Gottfried and others. Unless of course one wish to remain superficially informed. See also: The Dispossessed Majority by Wilmot Robinson. (I made it my goal to study this material over about 10 years …)
There is plenty of evidence that indicates Trump has a racist streak and he just doesn’t care. Not dunce-worthy, just evil.
That is too easy a designation since, when other countries are examined, concern over “invasion” and “replacement” are considered fairly and humanely.