Steve began:
“Unfortunately most of the political left has cherry picked part of the quote and left the context out, they’ve completely left out the fact that he also wrote “…He can no longer hurt innocent people!” This is an important point and the fact that most of the Democrats I’ve seen have left it out, they’re partisan hacks.
I don’t support Trump, I never have and I likely never will. The entire quote including the context that it was delivered is “Robert Mueller just died. Good, I’m glad he’s dead. He can no longer hurt innocent people!” which is a rough rhetorical equivalent to people saying or writing in April 1945, “Adolf Hitler just died. Good, I’m glad he’s dead. He can no longer hurt innocent people!”
No, that’s not an argument comparing Mueller to Hitler, it’s comparing the use of the context, and context does matter whether we agree with it or not. Also, this isn’t an argument supporting Trump; the narcissistic, loose cannon mouthed, unethical, POS Trump shouldn’t have written it, regardless of the context.
Selective stripping a quote of its context is wrong no matter who it’s done to, and it’s done far, far too often in the 21st century. Please don’t attack the messenger.”
[Verdict: Irrefutable ethics point. I take issue with “POS” but it has the effect of preempting accusations that Steve is just another MAGA cultist, so I give it a pass.]
Next, Steve observed,
“Ann wrote, “And yet imagine what Trump’s antagonists will say when he dies. Much worse, I predict.” I think that’s a reasonably fair prediction based on the FACT that they’ve already written and publicly screamed much worse.”
[Verdict: Nice! Setting a trap, which the Trump Deranged rushed into like Union soldiers into the crater during the Battle of Petersburg.]
In response to one of the more virulent (and obnoxious) commenters who took the bait, Steve wrote,
“AllAmericanJock wrote, “Unpopular, incompetent failure Trump is a classless, trashy, draft-dodging, economy-destroying, warmongering rapist, felon, and pedophile with rotting skin. Of course people will react differently do their deaths. President Trumpstein Files is still colluding with Russia. Imagine the paroxysms of rage from President Trumpflation and his army of dumb, fat incels if Ukraine was giving intel to Iran to help kill Americans. Russia does it, and the America Last rightwing MAGA cult bends over and begs Putin for more.”
I don’t know if you realize it, but posting that kind of pure propaganda makes you look like you have come down with an incurable case of Trump Derangement Syndrome?”
[Verdict: Thanks, Steve. I have been promising to post an official definition of Trump Derangement Syndrome and its markers, since some commenters have argued that the description it is just a cheap ad hominem device to discredit Trump critics. I’d say that calling the President “Unpopular, incompetent failure Trump is a classless, trashy, draft-dodging, economy-destroying, warmongering rapist, felon, and pedophile with rotting skin.” is signature significance.]
After a commenter wrote, “Of course Steve Witherspoon, we’d love it if you came on over to our side, but folks like you are desperately needed in the Democrat Party. Thank you,” weirdly concluding that Steve must be a Democrat, he responded,
“I’m 100% independent, I’ve never been part of a political party and I never will.”
[Ah-HA! Now I know why Ann gave Steve a forum! That’s how she sees herself!]
Another anti-Trump commenter responded to Steve’s assertion saying, “And you can take that to the food bank!!! while All American Jock wrote, *yawn* Steve Witherspoon should be more concerned that fewer and fewer Americans share his Trump D**riding Syndrome what with gas prices skyrocketing due to Trump and his drunken Defense Secretary’s illegal, unnecessary war.” [Is that guy an asshole or what?]
Steve’s retorts, first to the asshole:
“I think I might have psychologically triggered AllAmericanJock by pointing out how futile his intentional TDS propaganda trolling makes him look, I certainly hope he can unbundle his panties.
P.S. Trying to tell someone that they should be more concerned with something that’s way off topic is how trolling morons try unsuccessfully to deflect readers from their own moronic behavior and comments.
You have a nice evening AllAmericanJock and do come back when you’ve developed enough knowledge and intellect to actually debate using supportable facts and not propaganda that you’ve swallowed like a sheeple.”
Then to the “food bank” jerk…
“I’m really not sure what you’re trying to imply. Feel free to explain that rather obscure statement if you like.But just to be completely transparent, I’m retired and I regularly work at an area food bank donating and passing out food to families.”
Next, Steve made the necessary point about the claim that Mueller’s combat record should immunize him from criticism regarding his running of the “Russiagate” investigation…
“Mason G wrote, “Ok. So? Does receiving those awards excuse a person from doing shitty stuff later in their life?”
No. Previous awards from honorable military service years ago have no relevance in this instance and anyone that says or implies they are related is either a baldfaced liar or a moron.”
[Oh moron! Definitely moron.]
Steve had definitely pushed “AllAmericanJock” to the edge of madness (I think the only reason Ann let this jerk’s comments through moderation was to allow Steve to take him down), so our Ethics Hero responded,
“AllAmericanJock: Did you actually just call me, a person who you’ve never met before, a “pedo” with absolutely no supporting evidence to support your claim, thus you know it’s a fabricated lie? That only needs a simple yes or no to answer.
“Maybe you missed what I very specifically wrote above, I’m “100% independent” and “I don’t support Trump, I never have and I likely never will”. In addition to those facts, I very clearly wrote in plain English exactly what I think of Trump, he’s a “narcissistic, loose cannon mouthed, unethical, POS”. I can’t be any clearer than that. It honestly appears to me that you’re intentionally making up lies to attack me or maybe you’re reading the clearly presented English in dumbass, you choose which it is.
“AllAmericanJock wrote, “IDGAF how I “look” to you. ” Awww, did I trigger you again and hurt your feelings? I really don’t care how you feel. You freely walked into this rhetorical kitchen, suck up the rhetorical heat like an adult or head for the hills with your tail between your legs. I just don’t care about the feelings of an obvious internet troll.
“AllAmericanJock wrote, “Do not seek or want the approval of Trump’s un-American deplorables.”
Okay, so what? Since I’m not one of those, this has no relevance to me.
“AllAmericanJock wrote, “Guess your notion otherwise springs from the narcissistic delusionals that told you you control my presence.”
HA! You’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. YOU are the one that told me what I should be more concerned about, that sir is you trying to control what I think about and you’re showing hypocrisy. Plus; I wrote, “do come back when you’ve developed enough knowledge and intellect to actually debate using supportable facts and not propaganda that you’ve swallowed like a sheeple”. I was clear when I wrote “when” thus leaving it wide open for you to actually come back, on your own, and show some real knowledge and intellect, but you chose differently you chose to come back and show off some more moronic trolling. AllAmericanJock, there’s an old adage that you might want to commit to memory and recall when you put yourself in rhetorical situations like this again, when you find yourself in a rhetorical hole, you should stop digging otherwise you just look foolish.
“Now if you’re not actually intellectually stunted, try to apply what you’ve learned here.”
[Verdict: In engaging with this guy, who reminds me of several Facebook friends who are beyond hope, Steve courageously risks proving the wisdom of Jean Kerr’s observation that “the real menace in dealing with a 5-year-old is that in no time at all you begin to sound like a 5-year-old.”]
Of course AllAmericanjock tried to respond (his whole witty comment could be characterized as “Oh yeah? Well, I’m rubber and you’re glue!” Steve wrote back,
“AllAmericanJock wrote, “I still DGAF what you have to say about me.” Ha, keep on telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night. Your actions don’t support your words. Your replies, which are your actions, tell me that you care a great deal about what I say even though your words say otherwise. That’s a type of Freudian slip, which can be defined as ‘an unintentional error in speech, memory, or action that, according to psychoanalytic theory, reveals subconscious thoughts, fears, or repressed desires.'”
“AllAmericanJock wrote, “I criticize Trump, and you spent your entire evening tantruming about me in response.” Tantrumining? (That’s not an actual word, but I get what you’re trying to say) Again, here is my first reply to your comment that seemed to trigger you: “I don’t know if you realize it, but posting that kind of pure propaganda makes you look like you have come down with an incurable case of Trump Derangement Syndrome?” With all due respect to your obvious mastering of the English language, my comment doesn’t sound like a tantrum, which can be defined as ‘screaming, crying, kicking, or breath-holding.’ What I wrote was a simple statement of opinion with absolutely no associated “tantrumining”.
“AllAmericanJock wrote, “Cope and cry about it. And get a life. Loser.” Seriously? That sounds exactly like a 3rd or 4th grader in a school yard spat when they can’t think of anything else to say, they spout some nonsense like that and then bust out in tears.”
“AllAmericanJock wrote, “I’m still not refuting or taking back a single word I had to say about Trump.” I don’t expect you to and you’re welcome to your opinion, but your opinion still sounds and looks like you have come down with an incurable case of Trump Derangement Syndrome. Keep digging if you like.”
[Verdict: I’d ban a commenter who debated like AllAmericanJock. I also have decided not to get in these kinds of exchanges with my Trump Deranged friends. It’s a tough decision, because I also believe we have a duty to confront irresponsible purveyors of toxic discourse that makes other people angry, frightened or stupid. But unlike Steve, I’m not retired, and I have promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep. ]
Ethics Alarms 
Thanks for supplying the blow-by-blow in its entirety.
Steve sent me the link earlier, but bailed early on because I believed AllAmericanJock’s moronic imbecility might be contagious.
PWS
Will add that this isn’t anything I haven’t seen before.
I’ve enjoyed Steve meticulously vivisecting unsuspecting local Lefties for over a decade; they never know what hit ’em!
PWS
I see very little use in debating those hard left zombies whose minds have been completely made up. How do you handle screaming toddlers? The answer is that you handle this type of intransigence with stern discipline. Steve’s exchange proofs the wisdom of not engaging with trolls, combined with stern moderation.
I wonder if you view Abby Martin as a “hard Left zombie”? I agree that in American discourse and in the comment sections under blogs and YouTube channels that the partisan battles are raging and (ridiculously) everyone takes a side and dies on their cherished hills, but do you really reduce the moral and ethical concerns of the day down to such totally reduced terms?
The weird thing about participating in this Blog (speaking for myself personally) is not that my right-tending opinions are strengthened, but rather that I observe a chorus of people who only seem to bolster and support each other in digging down into established positions. It is (as someone say) an “echo-chamber”.
The minute you say something contrary I get the sense that the mechanism begins to get into convulsions.
Things cannot be so reduced to black and white, right and left.
[So with that said I guess I will have to join the rebels in the Putumayo. But what about my little girls?!?]
How do you remember public figures who led lives that are ethically complicated?
Mueller’s life was ethically complicated. As a Marine platoon leader in Vietnam, Mueller was shot and later returned to lead his platoon after his recovery. He received a Bronze Star for valor, a Purple Heart, 2 Navy/Marine Commendation medals, Republican of Vietnam Cross of Valor, and numerous other medals. After serving his country as FBI Director he was appointed by the DOJ as Special Council overseeing the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential elections, and became a participant in a clown show that greatly hurt his reputation and overshadowed his previous career and service to the country.
Trump’s reaction to his death was honest and truthful, but lacked class. I like Charles de Gaulle’s reaction to the death of Marshall Pétain a lot better by declaring that his life was “successively banal, then glorious, then deplorable, but never mediocre”. Marshall Pétain was a man with a complicated life; he was one of the great heroes in World War I, but he collaborated with the Nazis in World War II, after which he was spared the death penalty and was sentenced to life in prison.
One of the left’s heroes, Cesar Chavez, had an ethically complicated life as we found out last week. Left wing city and state governments waste no time in removing all references to Cesar Chavez from the public space by removing statues, and renaming streets. Somehow I believe that this reaction has more to do with his anti-illegal immigration stance than the allegations of sexual abuse.
Charlie Kirk’s death created strong and opposite reactions. He is lionized by Christian conservatives the MAGA right because of his political and moral stance, and reviled by the left who cheered on his death and destroyed impromptu memorials erected in his honor. To the hard left nothing is complicated; if you are not with them you are as evil as Adolf Hitler, and no positive memory is allowed to you.
There is a saying “Don’t speak ill of the dead”. This rule has the benefit of respecting the feelings of the deceased’s relatives and close friends. However it also has been said that the biggest lies are told during eulogies. All our lives are ethically complicated. Nobody is perfect. All have sinned. Honesty requires that we remember the good but also mention the bad. And that is where I think Trump fails, as he only mentions the bad; Trump is a man with narcissist tendencies who is unable to forgive and look past his own personal experiences.
The most charitable interpretation was that he was a senile patsy used as a figurehead.
Second. To what extent was he complicit in his being so used. This may be the Meuller family’s fault, much as the Joe Biden’s Four Years at Bernie’s fiasco was Dr. Jill’s and the rest of the Biden family’s fault. Why do Democrats deploy the demented?
Ironically, evidently the crazy left is happy Mueller is dead as well. He wasn’t as crazy as Jack Smith and Letitia James and Fani Willis and all the rest:
Robert Mueller never should have been a liberal hero
Hilarious.
This whole exchange reminds me why I am really glad you moderate comments, even if it sometimes costs you views and engagement. Your blog is one of the cleanest I’ve ever found while also still being interesting.
I went in all in with a Facebook “friend” on this and asked him why he was so put off by this comment by was virtually silent about all kinds of other issues, such as the abuse of people in Iran or transing kids or any other issue. Usually I back off if I feel like I am pushing someone too far, but I stood my ground this time. He deleted me, predictably. Before he deleted me, someone brought up that Trump was a pedo. It’s probably good he deleted me before I responded.
People let their personal dislike of Trump flavor everything. It feels like a divorce where one spouse will put the most negative interpretation on every single thing the other does. There comes a point where someone is so biased they almost descend into lunacy, kind of likes James Carville did with wanting to hate Trump more. It’s weird at this point.
For me, it’s not always that the TDS folks don’t sometimes have a point. My “friend” had a legitimate point about the tone of Trump’s comments, and I even agreed with him before making my argument, but it didn’t matter.
Attacking Trump makes people feel good about themselves or something. I don’t know.
The whole thing just reminds me of a former Facebook debate I had with my old boss. He refused to admit that he would prefer to live in a Christian majority country over a Muslim majority one, and he is gay. This was before Trump, but the same mentality seems to drive it all.
Jack,
Thanks for posting all that and for your kind words.
As for AllAmericanJock, the saga hasn’t ended yet; AllAmericanJock chose to keep digging.
I had a brief Facebook conversation about the cherry picking being done to Trump’s by the political left striping it of its context and the Facebook friend (a distant member of my family) chose to edit her original cherry picked post to include the context that she had omitted. Since almost all of the left leaning media that I had looked at at that time had cherry picked Trump’s comment, I don’t honestly know if my friend had intentionally cherry picked the comment or not, but I “liked” her notice that she edited it and told her it was the right thing to do. Here’s that brief conversation…
As for engaging with those that appear to be indoctrinated and brainwashed by the political left’s propaganda…
We all have our “that’s all I can stands, I can’t stands no more” Popeye moments and I’ve truly had my fill of them.
The intentional cherry picking has got to stop!
Being that you are retired and have time available on your hands, have you considered offering services to the USA-Iran negotiation efforts? Given your success with AllAmericanJock (obviously indoctrinated to ridiculous degrees) it seems that if the Iranians were subject to those armaments that they might realize the futility of operations against Divine Order and choose to allow America to open Walmarts in Tehran, give up the uranium, uncover their women, etc. (?)
Yes I know your comment was basically facetious in nature, but…
Alizia Tyler wrote, “Given your success with AllAmericanJock…”
Related to your off-topic topic of negotiation efforts, exactly what success did I have with AllAmericanJock?
None!
If I had been negotiating, I was a complete failure. 😉
It was glorious failure though! 🌞
Who the hell uses the pseudonym “AllAmericanJock”, anyway? …Biff Tannen?
Willem Reese wrote, “Who the hell uses the pseudonym “AllAmericanJock”, anyway? …Biff Tannen?”
A genuine narcissistic moron, that’s who.
He’s really easy to look up using Google, and I’ve got to say that “a narcissistic moron” seems to fit the personality of this guy perfectly.
Overall, I think he’s a cowardly moronic troll hiding behind a psydonyme.
I wrote above…
After I submitted what I planned to be my last comment yesterday and Ann finally posted it this afternoon, I guessing he’ll be cyber stalking me on the Althouse blog. After looking up this moron and learning more about him, I chose to end my last comment by calling the narcissistic moron a coward and explained why, that should send him straight over the edge.
The narcissistic moron AllAmericanJock made his bed.
Well, that’s clear evidence of the difference between my commenting moderation policies and Ann’s. I would have banned your nemesis after a warning (maybe) and definitely after that last comment. You will recall that I banned the legendary Chris after he responded to a good faith reply of mine with “HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!” I know I have made mistakes by being over-tolerant of ad hominem insults an by some regular commenters here, notably Ablative Meatshield, whose trademark vulgarity I allowed in misplaced fealty to free speech while giving him margins for many perceptive posts.
Commenters like that soil the field. Ann should dump him.
Unfortunately, Google Blogger doesn’t allow bloggers to ban specific commenters like WordPress does. You have to moderate their comments out of threads and report their abuse to Google, which so far appears not to do anything beyond telling the reporter that they got the report.
I also hate the complete lack of comment nesting so it’s damn near impossible for traders to follow a conversation that is spread out all over the place.
Great job, Steve!
The EA Commentariat is extremely fortunate to have Steve and Paul Schlecht on the ground in 77 Square Miles Surrounded by Reality. I admire Steve’s doggedness.
By the way, Ann seems to have become almost completely involved with arcane, obscure topics. I find her hardly worth checking anymore, which is unfortunate.
“The EA Commentariat is extremely fortunate to have Steve and Paul Schlecht on the ground in 77 Square Miles Surrounded by Reality.”
Our cross to bear.
“I admire Steve’s doggedness.”
Well put!
PWS
Amen to that!!
While I admire Steve’s persistence in the face of repeated hateful comments, I am reminded of the concept that there is no point in arguing with idiots or true believers.
Fact checkers I peruse now and then often say, ‘lacks context’. So, to add missing context, i.e. a more complete recitation of Trump’s statement, is a step in the right direction. But, where is the context that shows Mueller actually did harm innocent people. I know there were prosecutions not directly related to Russian collusion, and those, as for most prosecutions, were opposed. But were innocent people harmed by Mueller? Who? When? How? Context is needed.
If “hurt innocent people” was just a Trump add-on to make himself sound reasonable, then the criticisms portrayed as mere TDS are valid criticisms. On the other hand, if Mueller’s investigation did hurt innocent people, then let’s put forth, not just Trump’s claim, but also the details that support that claim.
Provocative comment and good observations, but “hurt innocent people” is an easy one. Evidence is strong the Mueller, or, if he was too far gone to care, his deputies, knew early on that this was a contrived issue and a wasteful investigation. They forced Americans to hire lawyers and undergo interrogation. They harmed reputations. The farce crippled the Trump administration, wasted time and resources, deliberately caused distrust of the government and law enforcement as well as the judiciary with ramifications we still suffer from today.
Not quite the details I was looking for, but I understand that being specific is a challenge, especially when ethics issues are numerous and time is limited.
Go Steve!
On top of everything, AllAmericanJock = A last word goof
Too bad Althouse doesn’t have an upvote feature in her blog. Reading through, it looks like more comments supported Steve’s take on the issue rather than “AllAmericanJock’s”.
There continues to be this odd script on the left. It begins with “How could you possibly vote for Trump?”, continues with some variation of “since you did, you are a fat uneducated turd”. Then they wonder why those same people don’t vote for the left, because Trump hasn’t done anything for them.
Newsflash. People don’t like being called dumb deplorables by the folks supposedly representing them. All the name calling Trump does? Yes, it’s over the top and childish and old and but it’s a bit satisfying to see them sputter. I still say it was their election to lose with Hillary Clinton and to a lesser extent with Kamala. They made their bed of vitriol and now they can stew in it.
https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about