The Combatants!
- Alois Bell, a pastor at Truth in the World Deliverance Ministries Church. Uncharitable, vengeful, arrogant and cheap, she complained about an autotip of 18% added to her Applebee’s check that was triggered by the size of her group. The bill was small, but the group was large. Crossing out the tip amount and replacing it with nada, she scrawled, insufferably, on the bill, “I give 10% to God, why do you get 18?”, thus stiffing the waiter whom the party later said had rendered impeccable service. She also scrawled “pastor” by the bill amount, thus presuming a clergy discount that didn’t (and shouldn’t) exist. After a waitress colleague of the un-tipped waiter posted the bill on Reddit to inspire some well-earned web-shaming, Bell complained to Applebee’s management, successfully getting the waitress fired.
Verdict: Contemptible jerk. She abused her position to claim a discount that she wasn’t entitled to, and punished an innocent server by withholding a fair tip. [This may not be so; see UPDATE at the end] Then she set out to take vengeance on the young woman for exposing her despicable conduct. So much for showing the other cheek. Bell’s conduct was as far from the teachings of Christianity as one can get, at least at an Applebee’s.
- Chelsea Welch, the now ex-Applebee’s waitress. She posted the obnoxious bill and scrawled comments online, whereupon the pastor was identified by her handwriting, and perhaps her jerkish personality.
Verdict: Unethical conduct, though provoked. Her colleague was wronged by the cheap pastor, but she forgot she wasn’t free to do as an Applebee’s employee what she might choose to do as a private individual. Applebee’s can’t have its customers worrying about whether real or perceived slights to restaurant staff will land them on various websites to be mocked and vilified. Her actions were irresponsible and a violation of her duties as an employee, even though her anger was certainly justified. And her method of retribution was excessive and unethical too.
Clearly, the pastor is the villain here, although Applebee’s had no choice other than to fire Welch. What she did can’t be condoned or tolerated. Bell, however, is a disgrace. She told has been quoted as saying, “My heart is really broken, I’ve brought embarrassment to my church and ministry,” and that has been termed “an apology” by the site that broke the story, “The Smoking Gun.” That’s not an apology; she’s regretting the consequences of her actions. She owes a real apology to the original waiter (we don’t know his name) and to Welch, whom she vindictively got fired from her job. Welch, in that case, though she might choke on it, would owe an apology to Bell, who should be able to behave like an ass in Applebees without being made into a web-super villain by a waitress. Welch also ought to apologize to Applebee’s. In fact, there is a lot of repair work needed here:
…If I were Welch, I’d apologize to Applebee’s now, and Bell if she ever showed any genuine contrition in the matter. I wouldn’t hold my breath.
…If I were Bell, I’d apologize to Welch for getting her fired, and personally ask Applebee’s to give Welch another chance—and pay the original waiter at least the 18% tip he was owed in the first place. [ See UPDATE below]
...I were Applebee’s, I’d ban Bell from the restaurant for life. But I wouldn’t re-hire Welch. I would also spell out in my employees manual why web-shaming customers is a no-no. And it may owe Bell about 7 bucks.
…If I were in charge of the Truth in the World Deliverance Ministries Church, I’d consider getting rid of Bell and find someone who actually practices what she preaches.
And if I were The Smoking Gun, I’d look up what “apology” means.
UPDATE: Now it appears that the pastor left a tip in cash, and only complained about it on the slip. And that Applebee’s charged her credit card with the tip anyway, meaning that it owes her money. If true, this makes Bell far less of a villain, and also makes her complaint to the restaurant more justifiable. It also makes Welch’s conduct look reckless and unfair, further justifying her dismissal.
__________________________________
Pointer: Lianne Best
Sources: The Smoking Gun 1,Yahoo! 1, Yahoo 2
Graphic: The Smoking Gun 2,
Ethics Alarms 
As a server I will say two things: One as much as people are (and I am not exaggerating) sickeningly rude to me I still understand I am representing the face of the company so I say nothing back. So in that respect I agree Applebee’s was in their right to get rid of her for tarnishing their image. Two I will also say that I completely understand the frustration with cheapo’s using god as their excuse. It makes my blood boil and pisses me off especially because our church crowd on sundays is full of people in clothes I cannot afford, with smartphones I don’t have money to pay for… and are usually the shittiest tippers/people who don’t tip as in don’t leave a tip at all. Their frame of mind is so perverse that they do not realize that good tips are not just for service but because this is how servers make their money and when you tip at 7-10% (what I usually receive, rarely do I get 15-20%) you are being cheap, especially in my situation where we have no bussers so I clean all my tables in addition to having to make most of my salads/deserts since they don’t usually have a salad/dessert prep person, I also have to take in person and on the phone to go orders in addition to setting them up and sending them out . I rarely go out to eat because it is expensive but when I do I tip good even if service isn’t the best because I understand the bullshit a person goes through as a server. If you think it’s easy being a diplomat to often times angry ignorant people I implore you to sign up.
The interesting effect of the fallout here is that instead of Applebee’s taking heat from 1 angry customer they now have 1,000’s of people breathing down their neck. That makes me happy. It makes me sad however that a “Preacher” would want to get someone fired and somehow thinks that fits with her faith in forgiveness, kindness, and most importantly humility.
I think this is a great comment, but if you understand the server’s responsibility and understand why the waitress was fired, why are you happy Applebee’s is in trouble? What did they do wrong?
I can’t say for certain, but having been a waitress myself, I’d say she’s happy that Applebbe’s is in trouble, because these places regularly will screw loyal employees, and will treat them like dirt, when a customer gets mad, and also treats them like dirt. Often the employees don’t really do anything wrong. It’s more they are understaffed, overworked, and the customer believes the world revolves around them, and that they are the only person and thing the employee has to focus on. Most servers are treated as less than human by many customers, and it’s wrong, and these places need to stand by good employees. She didn’t violate the handbook, so they should not have fired her. They should have written her up at most, and changed the handbook to make it clear, what they can and can’t do.
Again—no establishment needs a policy that says “don’t tick off the customers or make them pariahs on the internet.” If you don’t understand that basic principle, you’re unqualified to work for anyone.
Your first sentence is total conjecture—nobody has suggested that Applebee’s was mistreating employees. Welch violated Rule One of all employees: don’t make your employer look bad. No rule necessary. She wasn’t even the one stiffed her tip! She deserved firing. I bet no Human Resources director anywhere would take her side on this.
Given the number of lawsuits that employees have brought against Applebee’s, I think it’s safe to say lots of people are suggesting that Applebees mistreats its employees.
Which doesn’t mean that they are, and what does that have to do with this post? There is no allegation that Applebee’s abused anyone.
Well, they fired the server even though she didn’t break any company policy to satisfy the ego of a self righteous person who treats people badly by exploiting the fact that “the customer’s always right.” I think she got what she deserved and needs to read that big book again. What an obnoxious bitch.
You don’t need a policy that says “don’t tick off the customers or make them pariahs on the internet.” If you don’t understand that basic principle, you’re unqualified to work for anyone.
As for the pastor, no argument.
This actually depends on the employment laws for the state you work in. Some states are work/employ at will, not all are and require certain conditions be met in order for an employee to be terminated. Even most work/employ at will states still require a minimum set of standards to justify termination without the ability to obtain unemployment. That said, she should have been smarter and blacked out the name of the customer, and the restaurant.
No company allows employees to take proprietary documents and use them for their own purposes. The bill jointly belongs to the customer, and the restaurant, and it’s proprietary and private. You can’t spin this. It is grounds for firing everywhere and anywhere.
Jack, you do need a rule to specify dont’ tick off the customer, don’t post information and ect. That is because when something like this happens, Applebee’s can say, “It is in the company handbook.” If you don’t understand that, then you’re unqualified to tell people they are unqualified.
Sorry Mike, the handbook contains plenty of general phrases to cover this kind of thing—all handbooks do, and I’ve written some of them. Firing offenses do not have to be exactly specified in the handbook.
Jack, You keep repeating that you “don’t tick off the customers or make them pariahs on the internet.” Then what do you suggest as a method of exposing peoples rude and borish behavior? In the past when we lived in much tighter communities, public knowledge of and humiliation over, a persons bad behavior was commonplace and a fairly effective method of at least encouraging polite public behavior. Since we now live in a very large annomious society that little method of social control has been lost. But the internet and social media is, to an extent, bringing it back. My view, if you don’t want to be preceived as an rude and borish idiot, than don’t act like one and if you do, expect to be called out on it in a very public fashion.
As a server I may be able to answer why that person is happy. Servers usually only make $ 4.00 an hour. Most restaurants do not help or back up their staff in these kind of situations. I’m sure it was stated on the menu that 18% would be added to the check. Bell didn’t have to eat there. Bell had no right to do that. Applebee’s should have backed up the server and told Bell the 18% had to be paid. It gets really old, dealing with cheap people that don’t want to tip. Everyone always wants great service. But they don’t want to pay for it. Waiting on large parties can be a huge pain. It uses up all your tables and they stay for a long time. 18% isn’t enough. What I really want to know is…… How did 8 people eat for only 34.00. Did they share 3 meals and drink water ? What the hell. The server that posted this, is my HERO! People like Bell are idiots. Who gives a crap about her privacy. If Bell wasn’t such an asshole, it wouldn’t have happened in the first place.
But the 18% doesn’t have to be paid—this has been litigated. It not the price and its not a tax—the customer only contracted for the listed price. The 18% is fair, but voluntary. You can’t make a customer pay it, and if the service is lousy (which it apparently wasn’t), you shouldn’t.
I disagree. If the service is lousy you should still tip the bare minimum of 10% and ask to speak to a manager.
Depends how lousy. I’ve never tipped less than 10%, but I’ve been tempted with rude, surly waiters who act like I should be serving them. They have no right to a tip. When they think that is when they don’t earn one.
Jack, once again you are wrong or don’t have all the information. If the menu states partys over a certain number of people will have 18% gratuity added to the check and you choose to order, you have now made an oral agreement between the place of business and yourself. She broke the law by crossing off the gratuity and not paying it. If she had discussed the matter with the manager and he/she took the gratuity off, then that is a new contract both parties agree upon.
No Mike, you are wrong.
From multiple sources: “According to the “New York Times,” a tip is not legally enforceable, even if the restaurant declares it mandatory. In 2004, a New York restaurant patron refused to pay a mandatory 18 percent gratuity on a bill and was arrested for theft of services. However, the judge found him not guilty, stating that the payment of a tip is not legally enforceable by a restaurant.
Read more: Do You Have to Pay a Mandatory Gratuity? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_8085138_do-pay-mandatory-gratuity.html#ixzz2JdDWz5yW
I said above that it has been litigated. See? You learn something every day!
I sir have looked at ALL your responses and must say you are someone who has never waited tables or been in the service industry. Please refrain from commenting on something you obviously know nothing about.
Gee, sounds good, but really, really silly. My commentary isn’t in the least dependent on waiting tables. What’s your point, that the job is so tough, the regular rules about common sense, not embarrassing your employers and not losing customers don’t apply? Utter horse hockey.
Based on my experience as a patron, several servers who have rendered much less than desirable service (a euphemistic way of saying rude) still felt entitled to a more than generous tip. When give a tip commensurate with their service, I’ve had several develop on their already rude attitudes defended by an entrenched sense of entitlement.
I don’t doubt a large percentage of the ‘experienced waitstaff’ who are frantically joining the Pro-Revenge Lobby share that sense of entitlement.
Remember, the customer is the judge of the service you render, not you.
I sir have looked at ALL your responses and must say you are someone who has never waited tables or been in the service industry.
Well, if it makes you feel better, Todd, I have done so, and Jack is completely correct.
I would add that one of the reasons I decided to get out of the restaurant business is attitudes like yours.
Sometimes you need to stand up and expose people for what they are. Maybe the waitress should have been reprimanded for posting the receipt, but this so-called pastor deserved to be embarrassed. She makes all Christians look cheap and petty. Pastor Bell has no class.
Fine with me, if you do it on your own and don’t drag your employer into it. Or if you’re willing to get fired.
Possibly just because I’m anti-corporation and while I have faith in capitalism it is not my faith. Ya dig? To be more specific I just don’t agree with what has to be violated to achieve our money driven world. Knowing the restaurant industry intimately I understand exactly what Applebee’s does having endured it myself in multiple restaurants across the sprectrum that make me wish sometimes that the only people that don’t get shit (corporate) on in the organization….get shit on and feel the fire that ruins our lives and lets us accept being disrespected, talked down to, threatened, harassed, retaliated against, etc It’s a tad immature so I retract that bit of gleeful but irrational thinking. I’m glad I stumbled upon this page I love philosophy and ethics and all discussions in such realms!
You are welcome, Austin!
*spectrum
The web shaming was well deserved. If she didn’t want to be known as a cheap skate and a jerk, she shouldn’t have written a nasty note. The card number was not shown, there was no reasonable expectation of privacy. The fact you eat at Applebee’s isn’t private, it is a public act. She embarrassed herself, then called up and demanded the shamer get fired. Does she think god pays the server’s bills? Did she calmly request that the gratuity be removed so she could tip as she saw fit? She was a snotty, entitled customer, and deserves to be called on it. I don’t see where the server did a thing wrong.
Really? So if you go to eat out, and a waiter takes photos of you and puts comments about what a pig and sloppy eater you are with it up on Facebook and Twitter, that’s OK with you? A customer in a restaurant does not consent to having their words or conduct there broadcast to the world, and Applebee’s has a legitimate interest in making customers feel like their patronage won’t be abused. It’s not the pastor Applebee’s is concerned with, it’s all their other customers, who now have to worry that if a waiter doesn’t like their tip, they’ll find themselves being abused on Reddit.
Of course the waitress was wrong.
I love how this “Jack Marshall” is standing up for a blatantly rude person who abused their perceived power as pastor of a local church to insult someone she had just extracted services from, yet the link in his very name goes to a website called “PRO ETHICS” where he charges money to teach people how to be ethical. Chicanery at its finest.
Can you read? Do you comprehend English? Can you think? Here’s what I wrote, which you idiotically call “standing up” for Bell: Verdict: Contemptible jerk. She abused her position to claim a discount that she wasn’t entitled to, and punished an innocent waitress by withholding a fair tip. Then she set out to take vengeance on the young woman for exposing her despicable conduct. So much for showing the other cheek. Bell’s conduct was a far from the teachings of Christianity one can get, at least at an Applebee’s.
What part of “contemptible jerk” don’t you understand? How about “villain”? If you don’t understand those, you surely won’t understand this: You’re a lazy, rude and uneducated crypto-moron. You come on this site as a guest and impugn my integrity for something I not only didn’t do, but did exactly the opposite of! You belong in Bell’s church. You’re banned, dolt. Get lost. Find an online first grade reading comprehension class and take it. Or you can apologize for your insulting idiocy, and I might let you comment here again in about a year or so. Bye-bye.
I am not a waitress, but my daughter used to be. It happened to her several times. I think the simple answer is, if you don’t want to have to pay a tip, don’t go to restaurant to eat! Fix it yourself at home! But if you do, than don’t do as this pastor did, and I am using the word pastor for her very discriminatory, and use Gods name for not paying a tip. Those are the ones giving the other Christians a bad name! This pastor should be fired from her church, because she is dragging them through the dirt as well!
Wrong. It may be like stealing, but it’s not stealing. Tipping is voluntary, always. Lots of income is voluntary—like bonuses. The taxability of them is irrelevant. You’re also absolutely wrong about the need for a specific printed policy in a case like this—it’s pure firing for cause. A restaurant bill is a personal record for the customer and a business record for the company, both proprietary. No employee had the right to publicize it without permission—its not his or her property to publicize.
I disagree. Corporations have well documented policies and laws are.. well laws. They are written down for a reason. You saying I am wrong does not make it fact. We live in a legal world where everything is written down for the sake of protecting yourself. I think they ought to produce the policy. I’m not convinced that publicizing a photo copy of a receipt is an invasion of privacy. “Proprietary” data is protected to prevent another party from illegally benefiting from that data. A signature is not “proprietary” and since prices are for public consumption, nothing on that receipt would be considered “proprietary” data. Again, I think that would be a hard sell based on what I have read about privacy laws. I’m pretty sure that waitresses are required to pay taxes on “expected” tips. I think tips that are “auto” entered would likely fall into that category. This means that the waitress could be required to pay taxes on income she’s never received, in this case. While it isn’t theft in the legal sense, it is still taking money out of the pocket of that server. Say whatever you like but without the black and white print, you only have opinion.
Sorry, J, you just don’t know what you’re talking about. Proprietary means it belongs to someone else. What it’s used for is irrelevant. And laws are not the only things that an employee has to follow. There are seldom rules in handbooks about lying, for example, about lying (which is legal) to a supervisor, which will usually get you fired, and correctly so. This is an ethics blog, and an objective of ethics is trust. When an employer can’t trust an employee, that employee gets fired, and should be. She used terrible judgment. She embarrassed a customer using Applebee’s name. She took and publicized a document that wasn’t hers. If you can’t see why those acts are intolerable, I can’t help you. Go ahead and try them on your company. See what happens.
One unique part of this is that fact that the note, scribbled on the receipt, was directed at the server, not the establishment. This made the note personal not business. Applebee’s name is not present on any copy of the receipt that I have yet seen, so unless their merchant ID is somehow a household name, you really can’t say she embarrassed a customer using Applebee’s name. The customer embarrassed herself by writing a personal note to the server, which happened to be on the receipt. I’d say this makes the receipt the media of choice for written communication to the server. Whether I would do the same is irrelevant so why do you keep saying try it myself?
I have had plenty of training on what is considered proprietary data. If data is proprietary, copyrighted, etc.. it must be labeled as such. There is a reason for trademark and copyright symbols
————————————————————————————-
proprietary – protected by trademark or patent or copyright; made or produced or distributed by one having exclusive rights; “`Tylenol’ is a proprietary drug of which `acetaminophen’ is the generic form”
nonproprietary – not protected by trademark or patent or copyright; “nonproprietary products are in the public domain and anyone can produce or distribute them”
————————————————————————————
So the waitress violated no laws, invaded no ones privacy, shared no proprietary, copyrighted or trademarked data, violated no corporate policies that can be produced. She is only guilty of bad judgement, nothing more.
I didn’t say she violated any laws. I said she did take proprietary material. How to cheery-pick your definitions there, Johnny—my dictionaries define the word–the main definition–as Of or relating to an owner or ownership.
The note was directed to an Applebee’s employee in the discharge of his duty, and arguably not even to him, but the establishment, as “you” might have referred to the entity that added the tip, which was the restaurant, not the server. In any event, it was not directed ta the server personally and the waitress who posted the check wasn’t the one the note was referring to anyway!!!
Lame. Sorry.
You are doing some cherry picking of your own. The Noun “Proprietor” is the definition you reference, as in sole proprietor “owner” of the business. “Proprietary” is an adjective and describes content or material that is something that is used, produced, or marketed under exclusive legal right of the inventor or maker; specifically : that is protected by secrecy, patent, or copyright against free competition as to name, product, composition, or process of manufacture.
A receipt falls under none of these items.
There is a legal basis for it being directed at the server personally due to the fact that the customer at the time did not distinguish how the tip was added. Intent is an important part of the entire event.
Intent also plays a role in the actual picture and sharing of it online. The intent was not to slander someone and that person was not “misrepresented”. It was a display of fact. It was not altered or changed to somehow paint a different picture.
It’s water under the bridge at this point because the server will likely not pursue any action for wrongful termination.
Obviously, you will continue to make the same argument over and over with only opinion and no data, legal or otherwise, to back you.
Lame – Good luck with that
No, it wasn’t the noun: “Of or relating to an owner or ownership” is obviously the definition of the adjective. You are taking the most technical and least applicable definition to doge the issue. Give it up. I have three dictionaries here. You are wrong, and I suspect dishonest.
Your argument is garbage in every way conceivable. And look up “adjective.”
Wow! Not only are you wrong and misguided but a damn hypocrite as well. I see your other posts talking about personal attacks and how you are the moderator here. Now you are accusing me of dishonesty and calling my argument “garbage”?
You definitely take the award for the thickest skull here. I posted my opinion minus the personal attacks. You live in a fantasy land where your opinion is the only one that matters, and it is most definitely nothing more than opinion. That, is most definitely fact! You behave like the spurned child in the sandbox that takes his toys, kicks sand at the other kids and doesn’t know what else to say except call the other “poopyhead”.
Haha! Lame!!!!!!!!!!
Johnny, me boy—you falsely claimed a misleading definition for “proprietary”; I gave you the common one; you falsely claimed that I mistakenly used the definition of proprietor, when I did not. You called the definition of an adjective right out of three dictionaries a noun, which you could have easily checked yourself. You wove a ridiculous tangent about “intent” and “slander” and whether the customer was “misrepresented”, none of which is remotely germane to the issue of an employee violating her duties to her employer, and intentionally embarrassing a customer. Everything you are citing is either untrue, irrelevant, or mistaken. “Garbage” is a fair description, not a personal attack. Stating that I don’t know an adjective from a noun, however was both insulting and untrue—and the mistake was yours.
Wow indeed. Sputter all you want. I don’t have an obligation to respect badly reasoned and researched opinions, and I will not allow them to sit out there unchallenged to confuse others. If you don’t want your theories called garbage, don’t keep pushing ridiculous theories. Nothing personal.
If you’ve ever looked at a restaurant menu you’d see that the majority of them, including Applebee’s, says in plain writing that parties of X or more will automatically be charged a gratuity. Refusing to pay part of your bill based on the grounds that you simply don’t agree is a matter that should have been taken up before ordering. Ignoring this is, essentially, stealing.
It’s unethical to do something of this nature, just as you say in your original statements. Well-earned web-shaming indeed. It’s also unethical to do nothing about it. Apparently when people who aren’t you do this, they’re also unethical.
Contrast this with the recent story of a waiter in Texas who was NOT fired for refusing to serve people who were being rude to a customer whose child has Down’s Syndrome. This waiter has made disparaging remarks about the people involved publicly. Is this not also unethical? Where is your post attacking the waiter who defended Down’s Syndrome?
That post is here, and you can find it yourself in the Search engine. Assuming the people he said he would not serve—and that is not being rude or insulting—have not been publicly identified and there was a real insult to another set of patrons, which is how I read it, then the waiter was courageous, and there is no similarity to this situation whatsoever.
You are not obligated to pay the automatic tip amount. I won’t pay it if the service is lousy; sometimes I’ll pay more. A servor has no right or obligation to shame or in any way challenge what a diner chooses to pay as a gratuity. “Apparently when people who aren’t you do this, they’re also unethical.” That’s obnoxious and uncalled for. Read the comments guidelines. If you can’t make a coherent argument, don’t take it out on me—you’re a guest here, understand? Read the thread—I explained why Applebee’s has every reason to punish the waiter. And they do.
You yourself write that “Compliance means following rules because you have to; ethics is doing the right thing because you want to, or realize that it is in the best interest of others, stakeholders and society.” In this case, calling out the leader of a religious organization was in the best interest of society. It was the right thing to do.
I never said that Applebee’s didn’t have their own reasons to punish the waitress. It’s just unfortunate that their corporate rules don’t include protection against blatantly abusive customers. They’re a popular company desperately trying to avoid public backlash. What I implied was that the waitress was acting ethically, in your own words.
You are really going to assert that the waitress took the receipt home and scanned it to the internet along with scathing remarks out of some noble effort to show everyone else that this pastor doesn’t live up to her profession and that perhaps the public shaming would help the pastor men’s her ways and discourage others from the same?
Instead of doing it out of anger for getting jilted out of a tip?
Please…
Texaggo you should read the article more carefully. The waitress did not take the receipt home, she snapped a photo of it at the restaurant. Secondly, the waitress who posted it did not do it out of anger for getting jilted out of a tip because she is not the person who got jilted out of the tip. She is a co-worker. She did it out of amazement that a customer could be so rude and hypocritical.
Point? And how does any of that change the ethical equation? Taking a photo of the document is still misappropriation of the proprietary data it contains, and I’d have more sympathy for the waiter who was stiffed, by far. He behaved professionally, however. She didn’t.
Oh and restaurants do have rules protecting blatantly abusive customers. They throw them out. The issue is what you consider “blatant” abuse.
not protecting….should say “protecting from”.
No, she wasn’t, because her duty is to protect the company, and she harmed the company. I don’t know how much clearer I can say it. She was not ethical, because she acted outside her authority, as an Applebee’s employee.
And by no description can what the pastor did be called “abusive.” She didn’t leave a 7 buck tip, and gave an offensive reason why. That’s being a jerk, but it’s not abuse.
Both, pastor and the waitress made a big mistake. The pastor takes the big responsibility for her behavior. She never should write that note. She got more from God giving Him only the 10%. Probably the waitress doesn’t know what this means. If she (the pastor) is cheap better keep her mouth closed because this is bad example for the non-Christians. yep, her attitude was arrogant. The waitress violates the rule. If I be the pastor: a) ask for mercy to God. b) apologize to the waitress personally. c) explain to the church. OMG.
@ Jack – I think it is hard for people to see an injustice such as the one done to the waitress. There is a want for full blame to be upon the pastor. I see your point in that Applebee’s had an obligation not only to this patron but to future patron’s to show that customers will not be spread all over the internet.
However, I truly believe that a less harsh action could have been taken. I know that in most companies, one must get warnings or infractions prior to just being let go. I believe this event should have received the same process. I realize that treating patrons with undue respect is “golden rule” however if a company does not have the policy explicitly stated then one should not be fired for it.
The company going forward should note in the personnel packet the rules relating to patrons, privacy, and internet. (I feel it relates to warning labels, where one person sues then the rules change to accommodate that issue.)
It is easy for people reading to find fault in the way others see things. It’s much harder to see all sides and comment with rationality and sincere conjecture.
Thanks 🙂
The company could have, and that would have been unusually lenient. I wouldn’t have, because the conduct exposed Applebee’s to bad publicity nationally, not just locally. That’s major harm. Major. She should have foreseen that.
Screw Applebee’s. I won’t eat there again. As far as that Pastor’s church? I wouldn’t attend if it was the last church around If that is the kind of person they have leading the flock. Pastors should be above reproach and this woman isn’t. Shame on her and shame on her church for putting her in a position of leadership.
So if a waiter at Red Lobster was unhappy with a tip you left or didn’t leave and ranted so all could hear about what a lousy horribly cheapskate you were, then the Red Lobster manager fired that worker to ensure everyone knew that customers ought not be treated that way in their role as customer, would you not eat at Red Lobster ever again?
One I wouldn’t be writing notes on a bill about how I’m a pastor and I don’t need to pay a tip. The note was what put that pastor in the public eye. Yes, I have received crappy service before and I dealt with it during the meal, usually by requesting a new server. But this “pastor” didn’t get bad service, she just thought paying a tip was beneath her.
You do NOT voluntarily put yourself in the public eye by what you write on a check that is between you and the restaurant, and nobody else’s business.
I didn’t ask you what you would or wouldn’t write on a bill. I asked if you would want to see waitstaff appropriately dealt with if they ranted on about you being a cheapskate where others could see and hear.
Hell, if they ranted on about you being a cheapskate when others can’t see or hear is also a valid part of this consideration.
This reminds me of people who talk about their good Christian friends. I finally asked one of them. Are there bad Christian friends. I don’t think Christian is to be used as an adjective. I have seen more hurtful harm and evil intent done by the religious than I ever have by the people who just live their lives and don’t wear their faith on their sleeve to make others feel as if they are somehow unequal to the religious nut case.
There is a difference between being a Christian and being religious. Also I had a minister tell me once that person could profess to be an apple tree(Christian) but if they have cucumbers hanging off their tree they aren’t what they say they are. Words are fine but your actions will bear out what you really believe.
This is just a sad situation all the way around. The waitress violated the right to privacy, and got fired for it. The customer is one of the people that give the church group a bad name. I won’t even go out to eat with the church crowd after a Sunday service. They leave stingy tips. It is embarrassing. I got tired of going behind them, and making up the difference of what they should have left.
Why is this, do you think?
It seems that many people are absorbed with their own lives. They can be really free with other peoples labor. They tend to be selfish, and demanding. Sometimes, they think people who do honest work are beneath them. It appears that deep down they don’t really care about their fellow man. It is sad that they claim to represent the most kind person who ever walked the earth.
Being free with other people’s labor is not a phenomenon exclusive to the ‘church crowd’. I’ve had clients run around the design cycle again and again, until reminded they are being charged for design hours. Suddenly decisions get made. If a worker at all makes the mistake of appearing to give labor away, the floodgates open on demands to have this done or that done, etc.
It is very revealing of your own worldview that you don’t consider the ‘church crowd’ to engage in what you consider ‘honest work’.
I think your notion that ‘deep down’ they don’t care is false. It is just easier to notice small selfish behaviors in people when they adhere to a belief system that calls for selflessness. Even easier if you are carrying a chip on your shoulder, which it seems you are.
Yes, it does seem that the vehemence in the vilification of the pastor and the rush to excuse the waitress betrays anti-religion bias in some cases.
Look, customer service jobs are stressful and people make stupid mistakes. They could have taken this young lady aside and silently reprimanded her instead of firing her. If Applebees thought they had no recourse but to fire her, then fine. But if you recall, a franchisee (Zane Tankel) with over 40 stores got himself and the corporation in a lot of trouble a couple months back when he said he wasn’t going to hire any new employees and would cut back on his existing employees’ hours so he wouldn’t have to comply with the Affordable Care Act. I will guarantee that Applebees loses more business over Tankel’s comments and this young lady’s firing that they would have otherwise. Furthermore, you responded quite rudely to Doa Deere above. Perhaps you should fire yourself for losing your temper? Just saying….
1. If the owner does something stupid that hurts his business, that carried its own consequences. So what if he loses more business..it’s his business to lose. Her job is to KEEP business. There is no analogy there.
2. She visited my blog and wrongly and dishonestly accused me of something that was manifestly untrue. My description of her was accurate and fair–she deserved every word. I am very clear in the Comments guidelines that I am the host here, and I expect minimal respect, which means, among other things, not lying about what I’ve written, not engaging in groundless insults and being responsible in what you write.
I wasn’t the least bit angry. I was delighted—I love letting go like that, but seldom have the justification. She deserved it. And I just gave myself a raise. Just saying…
I disagree. A franchisee may ‘own’ his store, but he doesn’t own the company name. He hurt himself AND the corporation, two entirely separate entities. As far as Doa is concerned: it may be your blog, but if you want to come across as an ‘ethicist’, shouldn’t you refrain from acting in such an emotional way? Quite honestly, I didn’t know who you were either. I was just googling and came to this site. I’m sure a few of those posting here aren’t immediately familiar that you’re the author of the site and not just some random “joe”.
She referenced my corporate site and suggested that was unethical because I stood up for the pastor! Sorry, I’m not going to be sweet and polite about that. Did you read the post? Is there any way a rational reading of it would be that I sided with the pastor? There isn’t. You tell me: what excuse is there for that? It is beyond rude—it approaches libel and disparagement. In over 30,000 comments, nobody has ever done that before.
Meanwhile, if Applebee’s chose to take away the guys 40 franchises, they might have a legal battle on their hands–he’s not an employee, he’s a business partner. I’m sure they would have liked to have fired him, but the fact that they didn’t has no bearing on the legitimacy of firing an irresponsible employee.
I can see why you are angry, but your commentary on Doa’s post reflects why the waitress might not have thought about the employer when posting on Reddit. Your excuse of Doa’s comment being “beyond rude” can also be applied to Bell’s comment on the receipt, no?
1. Again, read my reply. I’m not angry.
2. If the pastor had said, “How dare you ask for money when I never even came to this restaurant! You’re a terrible waiter!” THEN her comment would have been as rude and idiotic as Doa’s.
3. And even then, Chelsea didn’t have the right to take unilateral action and vengeance against an APPLEBEE’S CUSTOMER. That was Applebee’s call (it would have been wrong too.)
4. There’s no analogy anyway. If the pastor had gone on the Applebee’s blog and defended her conduct and been designated a cheap, abusive, arrogant jerk by the owner of the company, then the situation would be similar. The pastor didn’t go on the internet voluntarily. The owner of the company didn’t make the decision to give her hell.
5. I threw Doa out of the establishment here for breaking the rules and being rude and abusive to the host. You will note that I wrote Applebee’s should ban Bell.
I’ve been reading this site for a while, but I tend to avoid the comments sections (not just here but most sites that have them). This was the first topic I felt strongly enough about to make a comment, and I was immediately attacked and called obnoxious and incoherent for calling out what I perceived to be a simple hypocrisy.
That’s when I went back read through the other comments on this post, then several other posts. Commenters with differing points of view are often attacked, and usually insulted. Meanwhile, he continues to justify himself for stooping to the level of an adolescent on a playground in order to further his *opinions* on ethics.
I think I’m going to take a few screenshots and send them to The Smoking Gun.
Go ahead. You’re being silly, and looking silly.
Here are my replies to you, along with this one:
1. That post is here, and you can find it yourself in the Search engine. Assuming the people he said he would not serve—and that is not being rude or insulting—have not been publicly identified and there was a real insult to another set of patrons, which is how I read it, then the waiter was courageous, and there is no similarity to this situation whatsoever.
You are not obligated to pay the automatic tip amount. I won’t pay it if the service is lousy; sometimes I’ll pay more. A server has no right or obligation to shame or in any way challenge what a diner chooses to pay as a gratuity. “Apparently when people who aren’t you do this, they’re also unethical.” That’s obnoxious and uncalled for. Read the comments guidelines. If you can’t make a coherent argument, don’t take it out on me—you’re a guest here, understand? Read the thread—I explained why Applebee’s has every reason to punish the waiter. And they do.
Assessment: you pulled a gratuitous and uncalled for accusation of hypocrisy when in fact you were using a false analogy. It was not inappropriate to direct you to the rule book, and I gave a timely warning. It was not an attack. You’ll know when I attack.
2. No, she wasn’t, because her duty is to protect the company, and she harmed the company. I don’t know how much clearer I can say it. She was not ethical, because she acted outside her authority, as an Applebee’s employee. And by no description can what the pastor did be called “abusive.” She didn’t leave a 7 buck tip, and gave an offensive reason why. That’s being a jerk, but it’s not abuse.
Assessment: I rebutted you, period. You repeated a contention that I had rebutted several times in the thread, No attack.
Commenters with differing points of view are encouraged, though the discourse can be tough. Two of the most frequent posters here disagree with me vociferously and regularly, and they can take it as well as they can dish it out. They also earn leeway by showing respect and earning the right to make a personal slam now and then. You haven’t.
I have made one harsh comment on this thread to someone who blatantly misrepresented what I wrote and insulted me professionally. It was 100% justified. It’s my site, my style, my choice of the limits here.
Take all the screenshots you want.
You’re wrong, Johnathan Cook. If a fellow dining patron had done what the waitress did, then okay. But the waitress wears a shirt that says Applebee’s. THAT’S what makes it wrong to do what she did.
Although she deserved it, in my opinion, the (low-life) pastor was ultimately humiliated by the restaurant.
I would love to disagree with you, Jack, and I wish you were as outraged as everyone else posting to you, but you are dead on.
I worked as a server for several years (many of them at Applebee’s) and post-church crowds had never been very gracious tippers. But I accepted that. It was my choice to work on Sundays.
The pastor was vengeful, but within her rights. I agree with her on no level… but she should not have been humiliated however it came about.
The waitress used poor judgement. Period. I personally wouldn’t want her to be fired, but if I were a corporation or franchise, I could see no other choice.
You would probably be more popular if you jumped on the bandwagon and were as upset as the rest of us, but you stick to your guns. To tell the truth, not what everyone wants to hear.
Very admirable, Jack. Kudos
Thanks, John. My job is to try to get past the emotion, rationalizations, biases and non-ethical consideration to show how ethical analysis works. It just takes practice, but people are addicted to other stuff.
All I can say is 1. Bell deserved to be shamed for obvious reasons. 2. The waitress deserved to be fired for slander (whether intentional or not). 3. Applebees probably lost more costumers firing the waitress than keeping her because (at least it seems to me) the overwhelming majority of the population thinks the public shaming was provoked and very deserved. It’s a result of thoughtlessness on all parties because, let’s face it, human beings are known for stupidity as much as intelligence.
First, Doa is retarded. Jack, I completely agree with everything you said about her comments. I also agree that it can be delightful to put such an idiot in their place. Then I think about Doa going to vote… and I feel like deserting our nation.
Second, if the church group really wanted to get a discount, they could have ordered takeout from Applebee’s for a church meeting or function. That sale should be tax exempt, and the selfish shepard can keep more of ‘Gods’ money.
Third, I am truly happy the selfish shepard feels humilated, and I hope she never forgets how deeply she betrayed her religion.
Last, this whole issue could be solved by paying servers a liveable wage, like they do in Europe, and not leaving tips at all.
Absolutely. The system is outrageous and exploitive. This is one area where a union is desperately needed.
Pastor Bell is a disgrace to her church and her religion. She knew or should have known there would be an 18% gratuity applied to the tab for her large party as this is clearly stated on the menu. I am not so sure I agree with Applebee’s decision to terminate her; ostensibly at the urging of Pastor Bell. If every customer who entered Applebee’s took the position of Pastor Bell, Applebee’s would go out of business as servers would refuse to work for Applebees or any restaurant where no tips were left by patrons. I wonder what Pastor Bell would do if all of her 15 church members consistently came to church on Sunday to hear her preach and left no alms behind. There is no basis; such as: poor service, food quality or attitude on the part of the server/restaurant outlined in the story for the conscious decision to enjoy the services of another for free. Pastor Bell represents the worst of the worst in terms of being self-righteous and breaking the social contract between restaurant patron and restaurant server. Idon’t feel her apology (if you want to call it that) comes close to being a sincere apology for her conduct and subsequent fallout.
I can see both sides, however calling Applebees and demanding the firing of employees is vindictive and a further lapse in judgement.Maybe the “Pastor” should be reprimanded or removed for her “lapse in judgement”. Truth in the World Ministries Church could use the 10% tidings to financially help the waitress who has been fired and is out of work. Ms Bell might be better off using her energies helping this woman find new employment.
Yes, of course, that would be great for everyone. By the way, the waitress’s web-shaming stunt was also vindictive,though not a single commenter has noted that. Revenge isn’t ethical. It just feels good.
Ok Jack, please excuse the following, I’m going to play Devils’s advicte for a moment.
1. You say the revenge is unethical.
2. Most people would assume that God is ethical. (for the record I don’t and I do not know what your opinion is)
3. Romans 12:19 – Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, says the Lord. // (ie I will take revenage)
Question: Is God unethical or is it ethical to take revenage. (assuming you are willing to answer to God at some point for stepping into his lane).
Please note I am not asking it if is ethical for a person to take revenage, just weather revenage itself is ethical.
Have fun.
God makes the rules, we are told, so he cannot break them. Thus ethics is really a non-sequiter when you talk about God. If God can do no wrong, then by definition He can’t be unethical
I was a professional bartender in a very exclusive Polynesian restaurant. My boss was delighted when I failed to served three women because they had stiffed everyone who ever waited on them. It had happened over and over and over again. They never ate, just ordered exotic blended drinks on happy hour, nursed them all evening and took up space when people were waiting to even be seated. Mind you, they did do this in the club (bar area). I walked past them for 30 minutes one night obviously waiting on people who came in later. I looked through them, ignored waving hands. They finally left. I went to my boss/owner later and said guess what, “The Three Frumps” came in again tonight and somehow I just never had time to wait on them….. He threw his head back and laughed, saying, “GOOD, I hope they NEVER come in again. I was the best bartender he ever had, he said so. He respected his employees and believed we earned our tips and were entitled to them. This Applebee’s employee should have just been warned, not fired. Maybe incidents like this will teach the public that what they do OUT IN PUBLIC can come back to haunt them. I don’t see any great expectation of privacy here.
But that’s the owner’s choice. He could have ordered you to serve the women (and many would have,) or told the women they weren’t welcome (which is what he should have done.) Unless everyone in the bar knew why you were treating the women that way, which I doubt, your conduct hurt the bar that night.
My conduct didn’t hurt the bar. If every customer did what these women did to our staff, our restaurant would have had to shut down for lack of help. I actually taught my boss how a bar is even run, his restaurant bar was new when it opened. When I first came there, waitresses who couldn’t even speak English would enter the bar and just bark out their drink orders like I had unlimited memory. I made them stack tickets along the bar, IN ORDER and would not fill the orders until they did. He was totally set up for theft by the help with his techniques. My boss long wanted rid of these 3 awful women who looked like Laugh In’s Ruth Busby, hair nets and all. When I worked for a club, my goal was to make as much money for them as humanly possible, then my money would follow. People used to come in and sit at the bar just to watch me work. A man once handed me money just because I was the fastest bartender he’d ever seen. When it came to associating a drink with a customer’s face, I did have the memory of a savant. A table of 10 could walk in and I already had their drinks on a tray stacked double decker.within minutes. You have a lot of rigid opinions for someone without my experience. You are right about one thing, my boss should have made them scarce, he was way too polite. He preferred to stay behind me, silent and let me do it. I even took care of his 4 month old baby during many days a week for free like they were family. I loved my Taiwanese boss, his wife, and family and wanted for them to be very successful in their new country, and they were. When I showed up for work and handed his wife their beautiful baby, they always knew I’d be working my tail off for them, and make good money doing it.
Well, yes, we know what the customer did was wrong. And if everyone on your staff did to every customer whose conduct displeased them what The waitress at Applebee’s did, how would that work out for you? Think customers would feel safe and welcome, do you?
Oh…I waived, one time only, the no fake e-mail rule because your post was interesting. No more. I need a name and an e-mail that works, or the next post gets spammed.