Gee, Am I An “Election Denier”?

That hilarious screen shot from the same MSNBC session that gave historian Michael Beschloss a platform to claim that Republicans are planning on arresting and killing children is too rich to pas up. What a great sanctimonious, “I’ve been warning” you scowl from Rachel Maddow’s protege, Chris Hayes. I wonder if that deadline to save America is as reliable as Al Gore’s and Greta Thunberg’s deadlines to save the world? How did people this ludicrous get in a position of influence?

But I digress. The simple matter of questioning the eminently questionable Joe Biden won the 2020 election has been somehow blown into some kind of apocalyptic phobia by the Axis of Unethical Conduct, and “election denier” has become almost as ubiquitous and versatile smear as “racist.” Here’s CBS’s “criteria” for labeling someone currently running as an “election denier.”

Democrats questioned the legitimacy of Bush’s two elections and Trump’s, and in Trump’s case, many of them never conceded that Trump was elected at all (they don’t think the Electoral College is legitimate). But you can question the legitimacy of an election and still accept the fact that the candidate was elected, just as one can question the legitimacy of a baseball game decided by an umpire’s bad call (Game 3 of the 1975 World series comes to mind, for some reason), but accept the fact that the game is over and the luckier team won.

John Quincy Adams wasn’t legitimately elected, but he was elected, and won the Presidency. Samuel Tilden was cheated out of the Presidency, but I don’t deny that Rutherford B. Hayes was elected. I don’t think, I know, that the 2020 election was slanted by unethical partisan tactics and unethical journalism designed to undermine Donald Trump’s administration and chances at being re-elected. Trump says it was “stolen”; well, that’s less precise than I would like, but it’s not wrong. There were many good reasons to claim fraud in many states, but the accusations were never proved, and such allegations must be proven. But they were not decisively disproved, either.  As for joining in the Texas lawsuit, so what? Lawsuits are arguments, and there is nothing unethical about having a theory that will be considered by a court. (When Democrats were trying to block certification of Bush’s election in 2005, Nancy Pelosi said, “Debate is fundamental to our democracy” and urged Republicans not to “talk about this as a conspiracy theory,” because  “it is about the Constitution.”)

Considering the long and intense effort by Democrats to try everything in the metaphorical book to delay the certification of Bush’s election in 2000 and their effort to recruit rogue electors to install Hillary in 2016, I view Democrats as ethically estopped from complaining about Republicans who wanted to block the January 6. 2001 certification. If Democrats cared about democracy as much as they claim, Congress would have undertaken a thorough, non-partisan investigation of the 2020 election. Such an investigation should have been mandatory. Instead, the party decided to devote its time and resources into criminalizing and punishing those whose response to the many irregularities was excessive.

No question about it: Donald Trump should have accepted the determination that he had lost much as Al Gore did in 2000 after all available procedural avenues were blocked. He should never have addressed a rally opposing Biden’s election, and he should have participated in the inauguration. However, those who still object to how the 2020 election was handled do not inherit Trump’s accountability.

Meanwhile, the hypocrisy of Democrats behaving as if they have not done their share of “election denying” (their term, not mine) is staggering. Stacey Adams, a supposed rising star in the party, claimed that she had really won the Georgia governor’s race, and has never conceded. Karl Rove (is he still around???) reminded Fox News today that Joe Biden owes his Presidency to a prominent Democratic “election denier,” House Whip James C Clyburn promoted the theory in 2005 that voting machines in Ohio switched votes for Democrat John Kerry to  President George W. Bush. 31 members voted against doing so, among them Bush won Ohio by 118,601 votes, but 31 House Democrats, led by Clyburn, opposed certifying the Ohio electors. Among them are important Democrat figures like now Senator Ed Markey; Rep. Raúl Grijalva (D., Ariz.), Natural Resources Committee chairman; Rep. Frank Pallone (D., N.J.), Energy and Commerce Committee chairman; Rep. Maxine Waters (D., Calif.), Financial Services Committee chairman; Rep. Bennie Thompson (D., Miss.), chairman of both the Homeland Security and Jan. 6 committees; Rep. Danny K. Davis (D., Ill.), chairman of a Ways and Means subcommittee; Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D., Texas), a senior member of the Judiciary, Homeland Security and Budget committees; and Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D., Ill.), senior chief deputy whip, and the sainted civil rights icon, Rep. John Lewis (D., Ga.),

All were anti-democracy villains, by Biden’s definitions last night.

Clyburn went on to save Biden’s chances of getting nominated in 2020, Biden lost the early primaries, and it was Clyburn who  endorsed Biden in  South Carolina, getting Joe his first big  primary win, and probably saving his candidacy.

22 thoughts on “Gee, Am I An “Election Denier”?

  1. Are they not painting themselves into a corner given the probable defeats of many a Democrat incumbent 6 days from now?

    How can they argue that the election was rigged against them after this election denier propaganda push.

    • They’ve got that covered. They’ve had their people (most prominently Hillary Clinton) out on the PR circuit for a couple of weeks now talking about how the “far right” is going to cheat. So, in any given race, if the Democrat wins, you’re an “election denier” if you have questions, even if there are glaringly obvious irregularities. If the Republican wins, they cheated. It’s quite a simple formula.

      That this shit works on at least a third of the population is deeply troubling.

  2. But you see, those other times were different. Democrats don’t deny elections, they just point up where corrupt elections have been corrupt or where someone got into office that didn’t deserve to.

    At this point, we are just about at the point of government by name calling. 2 years ago anyone could destroy anyone by saying racist, and two years before that anyone could destroy with a pointed finger and an accusation of improper sexual behavior. The left is always looking for the next magic bullet that will destroy someone once the finger is pointed and the word is spoken. Now that word is election denier.

    What happened in the past with John Quincy Adams and Rutherford B Hayes might as well have happened in ancient Sparta. Nothing before World War II really counts. Since the end of World War II, actually let’s make that since 1948, since Harry S. Truman’s first term was really left over from World War II, there have been 15 presidential elections. As far as the Democrats are concerned, every election they ever won was 100% fair and on the up and up, even though it’s an open secret that Richard Daley and his other Chicago minions made the dead rise from their graves to vote for JFK in 1960. 1992 was perfectly on the up and up, even though it involved an unfair late hit on George H.W. Bush bringing up Iran contra stuff. 2008 was perfectly fair and on the up and up even though there were plenty of dirty tricks, like individuals holding off releasing dirt until the time it would hurt conservatives the most. 2012 was just fine, even though it involved slimy tactics like listening in on Mitt Romney and reporting things he said out of context. 2020 was perfectly fine, in fact it was the most secure election to date, and no one is allowed to say otherwise on pain of being ostracized and maybe jailed. There was also nothing wrong with the dirty tricks they pulled that failed, like the attempt to slime Bush the younger in 2004 over his National guard service, which unfortunately was brought to light before it could do enough damage to put John Kerry in the White House, and let’s not forget the dredging up of an old DUI in October of 2000. However, talk about 2000 and how George W. Bush was elected by a tight margin in Florida and they will still maintain it was a dirty trick and that he was selected not elected, by a 5 to 4 vote in the Supreme Court by partisan justices. Talk about 2016 and they’ll talk about all kinds of dirty tricks between the Russians and Trump, but if you bring up the steel dossier or other dirty dealings on their side they’ll look at you like you suddenly reek of unwashed feet (bleah!).

    The left is also trying to feed the nation the myth that suddenly the right is a huge danger and everywhere outside the major cities there are cells of angry white men armed with assault rifles ready to wreak domestic terror on the peaceful ordinary people who want no part of their crazy cause.

    But in the meantime they want you to forget what happened 2 years ago or they want you to look at it through rose colored glasses, the same as a lot of folks look back at the 60s through golden gel and marijuana smoke and a lot of folks look back at the Troubles through green tinted lenses and whiskey. As far as the left is concerned, they want everyone to buy into the myth that 2020 was a great time of positive change when this nation spoke as one voice to say that black lives matter. Never mind the fact that over 50 people paid the ultimate price and who knows how many people had their lives and fortunes destroyed in these “mostly peaceful” protests. You can let yourself be led like a sheep into this comfortable lie, and you can let yourself be led into still more comfortable lies, or you can face up to the facts. The facts are not at all comfortable, and they shouldn’t be. It shouldn’t be comfortable to know that one political party weaponized a pandemic and stirred up political violence to forward its own interests and try to consolidate power. It shouldn’t be comfortable to know that one political party insists the other party does nothing but lie, while it lies itself. It shouldn’t be comfortable to know that one political party has been trying to marginalize the right to free speech for years, and is now on the cusp of being able to finally water down the First amendment to the point where it will no longer matter. It also shouldn’t be comfortable to know that this party deliberately ran someone unfit or soon to be unfit to be president and lied about what he was going to do as president, then did something completely different after he was safely elected. It really shouldn’t make you comfortable to know that this party and this president are at the point where they have villainized half the country. The left once said “not my president” when their guy was not in power. At this point they are saying “not your president” to the other side by having the president say that the other side are killers and traitors and liars.

    However, either they did not see or chose not to see one key factor. The American people are perfectly okay on the whole with any administration that keeps their quality of life going. As long as they can buy groceries, put gas in their car, send their kids to school and whatever activities, and take a decent vacation every year, a lot of the rest is just noise to many of them, maybe even to most of them. However, that’s not the case at this point. Inflation keeps going up while wages don’t keep up, the price of gas is still much higher than it was at any point during the last administration, everything is more expensive, and prices show no indication that they will start to come back down anytime soon or even not so soon. Women in this country are less concerned with aborting a theoretical next child than they are with feeding and transporting the ones they have. The average working man doesn’t want to hear about a riot at the Capitol by a few idiots almost 2 years ago and how everyone even vaguely write a center therefore represents a threat to democracy. He’s concerned with whether his kids will get to go to college and whether he and his wife will get to retire on time as he watches the investments for both of those things tank, and for what? The left isn’t offering any kind of plan to make things better for ordinary people. It offers nothing but fear, lies, and fake altruism as it keeps pointing to Ukraine and saying we must do for them even at the expense of doing for ourselves. This is not an attractive package to buy, and it is looking more and more like a large majority of Americans are not buying. Now the left wants to try and sell the lie that if in fact they do lose next week as is expected, then the results must have been fiddled with, because they can’t see how anyone would do anything but vote for them after the wonderful job they’ve been doing for the last 2 years. The only thing American people hate more than being deprived of their prosperity is being treated like idiots, and that’s just what the left is doing.

  3. There is a question that has to be asked – and asked in all seriousness: Is the “defense of democracy” again Trump becoming a bigger threat to democracy than Trump himself?

    In order to defend democracy from Trump, we are seeing almost an authoritarian – if not totalitarian – approach by the Democrats towards those who step out of line. People find their bank is dumping them. They get banned from various platforms, including PayPal. They are isolated and cut off with prejudice.

    For what? Conduct not far removed from what Democrats did in 2000, 2004, and 2016. The riot on Jan. 6, 2021 was unacceptable, but it paled in comparison to the violence over the summer.

    We may never know if the election was stolen, but it is beyond dispute, if you ask me, that the 2020 election was rendered unfair by the “well-funded cabal” Time magazine celebrated, the censorship on social media, and the riots in the summer (which probably did push some people to vote against Trump for fear of more riots).

    My real fear is that if Democrats were to get one-party power in the near future, we would see the Supreme Court packed in order to make it a rubber stamp for legislation that would impose a form of apartheid on the country depending on one’s adherence to the Democrats’ agenda.

    Me? I’d vote for Trump to stop such a system, knowing he’s a risk – but the Democrats have convinced me they are a much riskier option.

    • That is precisely what I’m thinking. The house where GOP congressional candidate Pat Harrigan’s kid were sleeping in was shot at.

      Not a word from the same folks who call Republicans a danger to democracy.

      Oh, wait, Harrigan probably had it coming for daring to oppose a Democrat.

      • Given the nonstop “must save the election” and “must save democracy” rhetoric- at a minimum they are pre-justifying a plethora of Election Day malfeasance.

        This could be ugly.

  4. Yes, Jack, you have graduated to the category of election denialist. Revel in it.

    Having read Mollie Hemingway’s book ‘Rigged’ and agreeing with much of it, I guess I’m a denier too.

    We’re all deniers here.

  5. ” At President Monroe’s reception for President-elect John Quincy Adams at the White House, Monroe and Lafayette and the others stopped talking and held their collective breaths as Andrew Jackson thrust his perpetually grim face through the door. Armed with pistols as usual, he snapped his head from side to side until he spotted Quincy Adams. He stared for a moment, then broke into a broad grin and bounded forward, hand outstretched to congratulate the president-elect and pledge his loyal support. Monroe and Lafayette breathed sights of relief and beamed with satisfaction as they watched the two former opponents fulfill the promise of American liberty and republican self-government. For the moment, America was secure.” – “The Last Founding Father: James Monroe and a Nation’s Call to Greatness”, chapter 19, page 331, author Harlow Giles Unger

  6. Jack wrote, “those who still object to how the 2020 election was handled do not inherit Trump’s accountability”.

    Spot on Jack!

    The political left’s theme about inheriting Trump’s accountability seems to have been an recurring underlying theme for social justice Democrats for at least a decade e.g. it seems that white people are supposed to graciously inherit the accountability of all the white slave owners in the past.

    Here are some relevant definitions to help make perfectly clear what I’m saying in the following paragraphs…

    Rigged: manipulated or controlled by deceptive or dishonest means.

    Rig: manage or conduct (something) fraudulently so as to produce a result or situation that is advantageous to a particular person or group.

    Fraud: something intended to deceive others.

    Fraudulently: in a way that involves deception.

    Propaganda: The expression of opinions or actions carried out deliberately by individuals or groups with a view to influencing the opinions or actions of other individuals or groups for predetermined ends and through psychological manipulations.

    Indoctrinate: teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically.

    Brainwash: make others adopt radically different beliefs by using systematic and often forcible pressure.

    Bastardize: change (something) in such a way as to lower its quality or value, typically by adding new elements.

    Systematic: done or acting according to a fixed plan or system; methodical.

    Gaslighting: manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.

    Morph: undergo or cause to undergo a gradual process of transformation.

    Culture: the social behaviors and norms found in human societies, as well as the knowledge, beliefs, arts, laws, customs, capabilities, and habits of the individuals in these groups.

    I have never once used the phrase stolen election to describe what happened in the 2020 election because I think it’s the wrong word to use. I have, and still do, use the phrase rigged election which I believe is an accurate description of what has happened. They are still trying to rig elections while they wildly flail about wielding their blunt tipped anti-Trump spear. Be honest, how many anti-Republican political ads have you seen in the last year that have not included some kind of direct connection or less than true innuendo connecting the Republican candidate to Donald Trump. It is transparently obvious that political left as a whole is psychologically obsessed with Donald Trump, he is occupying the penthouse of conscious thought in their brains rent free.

    Rigging is exactly what the political left did to the 2020 election and it started on or before the November 8, 2016 election. They have used innuendo filled and accusatory propaganda as their rhetorical rigging tools. There was four years straight of continuous in-your-face anti-Trump and anti-Republican propaganda from the political left and their lapdog media. Their propaganda is straight out of the USSR’s Pravda propaganda playbook. The political left has been actively perpetuating an outright fraud against we the people since just before the 2016 election. The left has been systematically trying to indoctrinate and brainwash we the people with their constant gaslighting which includes bastardizing the language and the United States Constitution to morph our culture into a society that will unquestionably follow whatever the Democratic Party dictates. The political left has brainwashed a huge cross section of we the people and stripped them of their ability to think critically, they have intentionally dumbed-down their followers turning them into a mindless hive minded of sheeple drones. Yes the Democratic Party and their lap dog media rigged (manipulated or controlled by deceptive or dishonest means) the 2020 Presidential election from stem to stern and they haven’t stopped their rigging to this day.

    In my opinion rigged is the right word to use with the 2020 election. Does that mean they didn’t count the votes in the ballot boxes properly, nope I’ve never ever claimed that, however, there were less than legal ballots put in the ballot boxes in some states due to brazen election law bastardizations and illegal rule changes by election officials. Unfortunately there is absolutely no way of knowing which ballots are less than legal or outright illegal once they have been put inside the ballot box to be counted.

    Am I an election denier, personally, I don’t think so.

    • “there were less than legal ballots put in the ballot boxes in some states … Unfortunately there is absolutely no way of knowing which ballots are less than legal or outright illegal once they have been put inside the ballot box to be counted.”

      Exactly. In Georgia, there were evidently many questionable “mail-in” ballots that were inserted into the counting process en masse, and once counted and mixed in with the others were beyond detection. I am sure those tactics will be repeated and expanded in this election and the 2024 election as well. Then, if they win, perhaps they can legitimately start worrying about those MAGA folks with guns.
      Personally, I think we need some sort of electoral college at the state level, to prevent the urban population centers from running roughshod over the rights and freedoms of the rural areas. I’m sure THAT would go over well with the Dims.

      • Jim Hodgson wrote, “Personally, I think we need some sort of electoral college at the state level, to prevent the urban population centers from running roughshod over the rights and freedoms of the rural areas. I’m sure THAT would go over well with the Dims.”

        I’m absolutely certain that there would be gnashing of teeth, cries of voter suppression and plenty of “mostly peaceful” protests in opposition to that kind of election law shift from the “norm”.

        As preferable as that might seem, at this point in our national history, amending state constitutions to something like that might get struck down by the United States Supreme Court. One argument might be that it is very intentionally and very literally shifting of the political power status quo and disenfranchising voters in major urban areas. On the other hand; a reasonable argument could be that the urban population centers have grown to be so densely populated that it has already shifted the balance of the state’s population since the states wrote their constitutions that political power status quo has already shifted in a way that has disenfranchised rural areas. All that said, this would be a really interesting Supreme Court case to follow.

      • That is a reform I think is desperately needed these days, along with having state senators represent counties, not population-based districts (they have state houses of delegates/representatives for that).

        As for absentee/mail-in ballots – people need to actively request the application, then the application is sent certified mail – with a pre-funded certified mail return envelope – and then the ballot itself is also mailed via certified mail and returned the same way.

  7. The democrats and the media seem to have a very special definition of democracy that makes democracy a synonym for totalitarianism and autocracy. I would very much like to destroy democracy as defined by them, because it sucks. A “democracy” characterized by one party rule, political persecution, elimination of free speech, and a government/corporate partner surveillance state is not a democracy I want to live in. I’ll vote for the “far-right” to destroy it every day of the week.

  8. Clearly the word has gone out that the only talking point to be dwelt upon in the next few days until the election is “election deniers/threat to democracy.” It’s everywhere and constant and loud. And orchestrated. And ridiculous to the point of being laughable.

    • Other Bill wrote, “Clearly the word has gone out that the only talking point to be dwelt upon in the next few days until the election is “election deniers/threat to democracy.” It’s everywhere and constant and loud. And orchestrated. And ridiculous to the point of being laughable.”

      One might be able to reasonably claim that there’s an apparent conspiracy to collude or is it simply a hive mind of blind sheeple. It’s hard to say, maybe both are reasonably true.

      • Steve, I’m convinced (I may be wrong, but I doubt it.) there’s a well-organized and run talking point operation in the Democrat/Left. Talking point memos are issued and circulated and made the basis of all sorts of “reporting” and commentary and “statements” by politicians. It’s essentially a public relations operation. Public relations firms send out copy to newspapers and other media about their clients, and the lazy people at the newspapers and other media use the copy the public relations firms gin up rather than having to make any effort themselves and report the PR stuff as if it’s fact. I’m sure people in the political sphere are just as lazy. Why come up with an answer to a question when you can just read a talking point? Plus, the talking points are “tested” and all that other focus group BS, so the recipients of the manna from heaven, er, talking points, think saying anything else would be risky. And I bet people who wander from the talking points are disciplined (i.e., defunded) by their betters in the party leadership. This unanimity of blather is not a coincidence.

  9. I’m a little shocked that CBS would come right out and publish such a list of criteria, blatantly and intentionally excluding anything who casts doubt on a Republican electoral victory. Are they really so far detached from reality in their echo chamber that they don’t think this makes themlook biased? Do they just not care if they do?

  10. I guess I am an election denier. I think I am more of an election questioner, but I can still feel Chris Hayes’ sad eyes penetrating my soul.

    I have questions about the legitimacy of Biden’s election and think an audit would be the only way to answer those questions (and even that may not be sufficient because an accurate audit may not be possible.

    But, from now on, I am going to call for “evidence-based election results.”

    -Jut

  11. Regarding the 2020 election and accusations of fraud. Of course the accusations were never proved because they were never investigated. They were summarily dismissed than clamed to be disproven. Aside from this, numerous states saw judges and election commissions arbitrarily making changes to election law on the fly, a practice that was wholly illegal, but they did it anyway. They did it to be able to accept the now infamous midnight ballot dumps.
    But Marshall is correct, fraudulent or not, biden was elected president and all that can be done is to try to ensure such practices aren’t repeated.

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