Oh, I find this fascinating, especially in light of the previous post.
Nerdeen Kiswani, a Palestinian Muslim New Yorker and activist, said in a social media post that dog poop littered snowdrifts in the city proved that dogs should have no place in society as indoor pets because, she wrote, “like we’ve said all along, they are unclean.”
Responding to this obnoxious assertion of foreign values and priorities over American ones, Representative Randy Fine (R-Fla.) replied, “If they force us to choose, the choice between dogs and Muslims is not a difficult one.”
Naturally the Mad Left exploded with horror and indignation, with the usual calls for the insensitive Republican’s resignation and worse. But the truth is, if we are being honest about our own culture and priorities, if every Muslim in the United States joined in a mass ultimatum stating, “This is non-negotiable. Either the United States gives up its dogs as house pets, or we’re leaving!” the overwhelming majority of Americans—including me—would say, “Gee, that’s a shame. Well, bye! Good luck in your future endeavors!”
The Ethics Alarms Ethics Quiz of the Day is…
Ethics Alarms 
I think it’s easy to overlook the premise of Rep. Fine’s statement: “If THEY force us to choose…”. Any friend who tries to tell you who you can be friends with, is no friend at all. Anyone who forces you to choose “them or me?” is on the road to less and less acceptable ultimatums. This is especially true if it comes out as “Yes, I said it was OK last week, but now I’m saying that it’s not OK.” Rep. Fine did NOT say “If it were up to me, I’d choose the dogs.” There’s probably more context to consider, as well.
Excellent point Lathechuck.
I find the whole notion of Islamophobia an underhanded and unethical means to promote one’s religion. If you cannot say I disagree without being called Islamophobic I call that oppression.
As Jack stated stating the truth cannot be unethical.
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
“Like we’ve said all along,” reeks of cultural superiority and chavinism. Why is she here? Has she been sent as a missionary to take over the infidel? That’s interesting. Tell me more. Or maybe, “Fuck off, sweetheart.”
“Tell me more. Or maybe, ‘Fuck off, sweetheart.’ “
I’ll go with the latter, OB!
PWS
I stand with the dogs.
God, I hate lefties sticking those bumper stickers on their cars. And flying little Ukrainian flags. Why don’t they say, “I support a senseless war killing thousands of young people.” I thought they were anti-war and we were supposed to “coexist,” “picture world peace” and “Imagine.”
The Ukraine thing, I kind of understand. The United States has historically been sympathetic to countries that have been invaded or are otherwise fighting for their freedom. The Greek War of Independence was a cause celebre in the 19th century, inspiring freedom-loving men from other countries to join in (Lord Byron famously joined up and died there). Americans joined the fight in WWI prior to 1917 by forming the Lafayette Escadrille. They fought in the George Washington and Abraham Lincoln Brigades during the Spanish Civil War. Some went to England to serve in the RAF before America’s entry into WWII.
As for why Leftists are so bent on supporting Ukraine, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Putin=Russian Hitler (Stalin Who?) and Trump’s Dictator Friend. We’ll leave out the part where Ukrainians oppressed by Stalin welcomed Hitler’s armies in 1941.
Woof woof, grrr woof whine wooof grrr!
And that’s about all I have to say on the matter.
Throw in a tail wag and floppy ears and your have a picture of Remy’s magnificence.
jvb
On a slightly related note, this made me think of a certain British meme that’s been making the rounds lately:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgIBboG76Hg
For more about where this girl comes from (which is quite the story):
https://barsoom.substack.com/p/amelia-sans-merci
And here is one more example of hectoring by the UK Government on mass migration from non-Western countries.
Having had extensive experience with both dogs and people, I find myself far more concerned with the dogs’ opinions of people, than with people’s opinions of dogs.
it’s a democrat run city; how do they know it’s dog poop? In any case, I’ve never heard of a dog planning a suicide bombing or hijacking a plane and killing thousands. I’ll stand with the dogs.
Heh!
PWS
A lot of farmers, shepherds and ranchers whose dogs are part of their work force would beg to differ with Ms. Kiswani, and unfortunately wouldn’t have any job openings for her or her co-religionists as hired hands, if they couldn’t work as a team with the dogs.
In our own home, we are on our 3rd rescue dog, each of whom has been a beloved family member from young adulthood to old age (& death from natural causes). Yes, we have to clean up after our current senior dog when she has an “accident”, but we do it willingly because she’s family. And if someone doesn’t wish to enter our home because a dog lives here, we’ll just have to do without that visitor’s company.
“No Philosophers So Thoroughly Comprehend Us As Dogs And Horses” H. Melville
PWS
That apparently aligns with scientific evidence, although dogs hold the edge mainly due to shared evolution and the exchange of oxytocin hormones in their interactions with humans.
You might ask why dogs are not allowed in Islam. Well, the mighty angel Gabriel who gave MHMD his revelations said he couldn’t come into a house with a dog in it. Why? You might ask. Well, in Arabic countries, it is thought that dogs can sense evil spirits. If a dog was in the house, it would bark at Gabriel. So, you can’t have a dog in the house so evil spirits can come into your prophet’s house and give him revelations.
Sounds like I need to get a dog. That whole ‘sensing evil spirits’ thing seems useful.
I fear that I have shown insufficient interest in Islam generally except for reading interpretations, defenses and critiques from those who have studied the matter. What I have absorbed is that the religions, history and culture makes Islam generally hostile to Western culture, traditions, law and history, and the Left’s determination to force-feed Muslims into US society is irresponsible, the ultimate evidence of why multi-culturalism not only doesn’t work, but is a disaster waiting to happen (or already happening.)
As happens so often, this minor episode may be a tipping point in that debate.
As to the evil spirits thing: that may be an example of cross-pollination between cultures, which is not always a bad thing. In many horror stories and movies, dogs (and cats) see or sense the supernatural entity when humans don’t. The first sign something is up in “Poltergeist” is when the family’s Golden Retriever starts staring at the ceiling, begging, barking, and wagging its tail. In the Terminator movies, dogs sense the androids before people do.
Animal behavior also reinforces the concept. My wife’s cat would suddenly star at nothing, his fur would stand up, and he would shriek and run. Spuds sometimes stares at nothing and goes into watch-mode.
Gavin de Becker, the author of “The Gift of Fear”, argues that dogs don’t have any type of extra sensory abilities. He claims that they know us and that they respond to a heightened sense of alertness in people which is an evolutionary holdover from our more primitive days.
I don’t know about that.
No actual scientific studies to back this up, but animal experts believe that dogs and cats can detect biological changes in people that are indicators of illness or imminent death. Our bodies release different chemicals which cats and dogs can identify due to their superior sense of smell. Some would like to assign a mystical connection, but it is most likely biology and science. However, pets seem to change their behavior when their owner is ill or dying.
Not a pet owner myself, but I stand with the dogs ….
And I stand with Representative Fine.
Is all this hubbub about making sure people pick up after their dogs? Because I think most people support that.
What does “unclean” mean? Does it just mean “produces poop”? How does dog poop outside imply anything about dogs not being “indoor pets”? Are Muslims allowed to have any pets at all?
Or do they mean spiritually unclean, which… I have no idea what that means in the context of animals.
I find discussions get a lot more productive when you start asking incisive questions and keep at it.
Here’s a source with some explanations. It’s a biased source, but at least informative, and can be taken with a grain of salt.
I’ve seen Muslims in mainly Islamic countries, like Egypt, treat dogs kindly.
Islamic attitudes toward dogs vary. Some think of them as ok to use as working animals (herding, hunting etc.), but not pets. Judaism also for a time was anti-dog, and I think that ported over to Islam, same as the rule against pork. I for one have never owned a dog, but I have known many, and I think they are useful in a number of ways, including as companion animals. They assist the disabled, protect and direct livestock, find people (or bodies), save those stranded on mountains, assist the emergency services, and even tow carts with Christmas trees or other evergreen decorations (the Bernese Mountain Dog is the usual breed for this). I’ll take a large gentle dog or an affectionate energetic dog (little yappy dogs are not my thing) over a hyper-religious neighbor who wants to tell me what to do any day. I’ve said a few times that Islam is not compatible with Western values, and this is just one other reason why it isn’t.
Despite my extensive studies of Islam’s history with the West, which is full of conflict, I do not hate Muslims, since that would be illogical and counterproductive. However, it’s Islamic leaders like Musa ibn Nusayr who started the aborted Islamic conquest in Europe, Osama bin Laden in the present day, and leaders in between like the villainous Almanzor (who sacked Santiago de Compostela and razed and plundered churches), the brutal Arouj Barbarossa (a vicious pirate, and his brother Haireddin wasn’t such a nice guy either, he massacred the entire town of Fondi because one woman escaped), the ruthless Mohammed II (the destroyer of Constantinople), the treacherous Lala Mustafa (who promised a Venetian general if he surrendered he and his men would be allowed to leave, but instead enslaved the soldiers, beheaded their officers, and had the general flayed alive), and so forth, who get the rest of Islam a bad name. Those who come into the west and demand that the west change its ways to their ways are not helping this.
You don’t want to eat pork? That’s fine. But don’t tell me I can’t have my Sunday bacon. You don’t think it’s all right to drink wine? Then don’t drink it, but don’t tell me I can’t. You don’t like Jewish people? That’s your business, but if you insult, attack, or hurt them, then it becomes everyone’s business. You don’t like church bells or religious music? That’s ok, but you don’t get to silence them while at the same time demanding the right to boom your call to prayer from loudspeakers five times a day. You think child grooming is ok, or that it’s ok to force someone to marry against her will? You are in the wrong part of the world. You can disagree with us all you want, but you can’t demand we be silenced when it comes to your prophet. If I want to say Mohammed was a pedophile bandit (although that’s a gross simplification) I’ll say it. That’s how it goes here. This isn’t Saudi Arabia, where you can ban churches. This isn’t Egypt, where you can treat the minority Christians like shit and no one can do a thing about it. This definitely isn’t Turkey, where you can just wipe out or expel all religious and ethnic minorities, erase any and all signs they were ever there, and get away with it.
If you have a problem with this, may I suggest a return to whatever primitive sandbox you came from? The sooner the better.
Hey! Comment of the Day!
Steve-O,
Fantastic!
Sometimes after reading your responses, I wonder which side of an issue you land on.
I’m kidding…no, I don’t.
Here’s a nice little item: Calls for World Cup boycott erupt in US amid disturbing dog ‘massacre’ claims | Daily Mail Online
Slaughtering feral dogs in Morrocco.
About that “Islamophobia” thing, here is a headline from today in the biggest Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf. Translated in English: “Dutchmen continue to visit German Christmas markets despite fears for terror attack as fear is a poor counselor.”
This is related to terror attacks at Christmas markets in recent years in Berlin, Strassbourg, and some other cities. There was no New Year Eve celebration in Paris under the Arc de Triomphe this year due to fear of terror attacks.
If people and authorities in Europe are feeling the fear and acting on those fears due to real acts of terrorism, then all the Islamophobia shaming starts to ring hollow and unreal.
https://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/nederlanders-blijven-massaal-naar-duitse-kerstmarkten-komen-ondanks-vrees-voor-terreuraanslag-angst-is-een-slechte-raadgever/117150816.html
A great summary of our first Muslim president: Obama is in no position to lecture us about decency
The Moroccan guys terrorizing the Dutch on the bike paths with their motor bikes should be deported. Assholes.
Is this not where ethics and wisdom diverge in a yellow wood.
I had no idea who Nerdeen Kiswani was or is so I googled her.
Apparently, she is a Jordanian born Palestinian who grew up in New York, attended an Islamic school and later public school, attended CUNY, studying human rights and international relations. She also attended CUNY Law School, graduating in 2022, as was elected the commencement speaker at her graduation ceremony, criticizing the US, Israel, and her school’s response to the Israel-Palestine conflict. She co-founded the NYC Students for Justice in Palestine, and was prohibited from visiting the West Bank due to her activism. She and her law school organization defeated a resolution defining anti-semitism. She hates Israel and what she declares as zionism.
I suspect that she has a long history of “advocating” for radical Islam and Muslims, especially when it comes to Israel and Jews. I also suspect that this recent declaration against dogs is, in part, in support of a Communist Muslim elected Mayor of the nation’s largest city and the world’s most important financial center. I further suspect that the statement isn’t as much about dogs as it is about shoving Islam down the throats of infidels.
jvb