Why don’t “the guys” take personal responsibility????
Update on the Tragic, Trump Derangement-Fueled Deterioration of the Once Ethical and Perceptive Ken White
Ethics Alarms
An ethics commentary blog on current events and issues
Why don’t “the guys” take personal responsibility????
Whether the frat boys allegedly involved had decency, integrity, or conscience or not, didn’t they have any awareness of sexually transmitted diseases? Any woman getting into the situation as described could be carrying enough biological diversity to entertain a convention of public health doctors! It’s not like these guys found a dollar in the street; it’s like they found a taco in the gutter and ate it!
In all kinds of respects, I think the participants all think they’re just acting out a porn movie.
A nice piece: The Sexual Revolution Failed Jane Doe – by Larissa Phillips
I find it to be the height of misogyny to say that women lack the same agency over their bodies as men do. That is what it comes done to when we say a woman cannot consent to sex if intoxicated but men have the mental capacity to say no when they are intoxicated.
If I were the President of Cornell I would immediately eliminate ALL fraternity and sororities on campus with no parties allowed on university grounds as they have proven themselves to be a liability. I might even seek to eliminate co-ed dorms. I would simply tell the young men and women that they have brought this decision on themselves by engaging in high risk behaviors and holding the school to account for the student’s behaviors.
Sometimes, tough actions are needed.
Who ever thought co-ed dorms, including co-ed bathrooms, were a good idea? Insanity. Guys have to still be saying, “Thank you, God!”
To an extent, I can agree with Ken. Just as women need the talk about wearing skimpy clothes in dark alleys at night, and blacks need the talk about dealing with police, men should get a talk about how in today’s culture, what seems like a good, consensual time can come back and bite you in the ass later on.
I agree with Bill’s analysis that these frat boys think they’re living out a porn film. That is very likely, given the high use of pornography among young men (some reports put 60% of young men at least at weekly use of pornography). But the problem with pornography is that it is a fantasy. Real relationships don’t work that way. The sex acts themselves don’t work that way. The porn video ends, but real life doesn’t. There’s the aftermath, the guilt, the wonder if what just happened should be all right or life-shattering. But the pornography warps the brain to expect certain things to happen a certain way, and if a young woman agrees to go along with some of the fantasy (what woman in her right mind agrees to a threesome?), a young man will expect everything to proceed along the porn video guidelines.
Men need the cold shower realization that the world today will seek to destroy them for the use of their sexuality. I don’t care about the agency issue with whether a drunk girl is just as culpable. Pragmatism suggests that men should learn quick to keep their junk in their pants and watch out for each other against slipping into situations where the woman could wake up the next day and decide what was a rip-roaring good time was actually rape. That seems to me to be the necessary conclusion in the aftermath of “Me Too” and “Believe all women” and “Dear colleague”.
Ryan,
I cannot disagree with anything you wrote. My comment about agency was merely to expose the double standard pseudo feminists use when they decide to change their minds. in one breath they claim to have full agency over their bodies but when it does not suit them after the fact it was someone else that forced them to do something because they were intoxicated. Intoxicated males do not get that benefit.
This statement you wrote is particularly powerful. “Men need the cold shower realization that the world today will seek to destroy them for the use of their sexuality.” This explains why the double standard exists. The thinking goes – Where it is difficult or impractical to advance in a positive manner your position is advanced when that to which you are compared is relegated to a lesser status. I would add that the idea of being involved with a woman that behaves in such a manner would scare the crap out of me from a health perspective, let alone the disgusting notion of “sloppy seconds, thirds, fourths, etc.
Men by their very nature of being competitive and believe they must maintain the appearance of masculinity to be taken seriously are the objects to which many women compare themselves. Knocking a few men off their pedestal so they can stand their place is much easier than doing something positive that gives them their own unique pedestal.
Such double standards make it difficult to give the requisite respect many women deserve until they prove themselves deserving of that respect. Unfortunately, that is what holds good women back.
The narrative around this is very confusing. From what I can gather, this is the timeline of what happened. Please correct what I have wrong.
She arrives at the party, decides to ‘get her freak on’. Fraternity members oblige and send a text message for people to come watch.
Next day, some frat members call and apologize for callous conduct. She tells them it is OK, that she is fine, that society is changing and this should be acceptable conduct. She tells one frat brother that she will beat up anyone who gives the him grief about it.
Word spreads, the university police investigate. She is interviewed. In the 120 page transcript she never says she was raped and states that she was ‘mostly into it’ on everything that happened. DA passes on prosecuting because..duh.
The sorority head tells her that she is acting way too slutty for their sorority. Sorority sisters start slut shaming her.
She gets uninvited to the Halloween Party, the ‘Slut Superbowl’.
She claims rape. She claims she was drunk, that she couldn’t consent. She states that she tried to do more ketamine that night so she could pass out and that the guys could be charged with rape.
Everyone freaks out. All the so-called feminists demand the boys be convicted of rape. Many blame Trump despite this happening during Biden’s presidency. Protests happen. the University caves and accedes to the protesters demands, no matter how unhinged.
She sues the bar for serving her alcohol when she was visibly drunk. The bar claims that she was never served alcohol at their establishment. In a phone recording, she tells one of the frat brothers that she was completely sober when she got to the party.
That is what I have gathered so far. Did I miss anything crucial? I did note that ‘The View’s ‘lawyer’ first gave analysis that there wasn’t enough evidence to charge the men with rape. After the public outcry, she then said that she was persuaded that for cases like this, you need to look past the evidence and judge this based on ‘the feels’.
Why are all these frat guys recording every conversation they have with a woman? Does this stuff happen enough that the frat lawyers are telling them to do this?
I’m pretty sure he’s falling afoul of Poe’s law, in an attempt to mock the “Why did she put herself in that situation” argument that comes up in rape cases sometimes. There’s a grain of truth in both versions, that you should be aware of possible consequences even if they are unreasonable one.
That was my thought: his statement could be read as serious or sarcastic.
-Jut
Lawyers like Ken White ought to be more concerned with the rights of defendants than with the morals and life choices of the typical defendant. The rights of the typical defendant n any criminal trial are my rights too. I am concerned about society where men are constantly vilified, and women who make similarly poor choices are painted as victim and face no accountability.