Comment of the Day: “Ethics Quiz: Holder’s ‘Brainwash’ Comment”

"You want 'consensus'? I'll give you consensus, Pilgrim..."

Penn, who has been on a roll lately, has another Comment of the Day regarding the prospects of a cultural shift in public attitudes toward guns in America. I’ll have some thoughts afterwards, but right now, here is Penn COTD on the post, Ethics Quiz: Holder’s “Brainwash” Comment:

“I’m seeing a problem here that’s as insoluble as “what to do with the homeless.”  It comes up again and again: defending the right to bear arms against teaching non-violence — okay, that’s simplistic, but I think you know what I mean. Since arguments on both sides have been validated, their proponents feel duty-bound to reiterate them.

“Granted, consensus is a no-go in our culture. You win or you lose: compromise is a dirty word, and a win/win situation, while given lip service as a goal (e.g. good sportsmanship), is not an acceptable outcome.  Thus neither argument, in theory or in practice, takes a step further in solving in the short-term the problem of what to do with an increasingly violent society (schools, families, criminals, celebrities, etc.), a society embedded in an ever-shrinking, increasingly threatening world. Thinking that these guns/no guns arguments have some pragmatic use keeps us, so to speak, backward.

“I think most people recognize that neither one is a solution. Thus arises a majority position that is even less satisfactory than the polarization. The old laissez faire policy, in no particular order: (1) it’s okay to beat my child because I was beaten and, see, I’m just dandy — I am the judge of what is violent; (2) Nobody agrees on what works or they keep changing back and forth so I’ll just go on doing what I’m doing (3) whatever isn’t working is the fault of things beyond my control or that I don’t understand (schools, corporations, the law, the police, the neighborhood; (4) “History repeats itself” — we can wait it out; (5) there is/will be a study group, organization, politician, or superhero who will come along and fix it; (6) I have chosen to trust this or that news source, guru, relative or buddy to decide for me; or, as corollary, send around a petition and I’ll sign IT or put IT on the ballot for me to vote for … whatever “it” is; and (7) I have/don’t have a gun, so I’m already on the right (correct) side, and that’s the end of it.

“I have seen consensus work. It’s a slow — even ponderous –, careful, thoughtful, often uncomfortable, giving process that requires all participants to find out and understand, in a colloquial sense, where everyone else is coming from, regardless of status. It involves recognizing and sharing responsibilities rather than asserting rights.  It is one of those decision-making processes that need to put society before the individual.  It’s not at all American. (But then, of course, it won’t work here, will it? Too bad.)”

I’m back.

I really like the comment, and I really disagree with its assumptions:

  • Consensus, in the literal sense, is impossible in a society as diverse and individualistic as U.S. society, but cultural shifts occur all the time. The examples I cited in the post are real, and some of them are fairly recent. The culture is nearing a sufficient consensus to cause a shift, for example, that government can’t be trusted…in fact, that institutions can’t be trusted. There is a growing consensus that taxes have to rise. Two decades ago, the idea of gay marriage nauseated a majority of the public. Today a majority accepts it as fair and benign. 60 years ago, most Americans believed that African-Americans were inferior to whites, and that women couldn’t be trusted to hold management positions. Those shifts has been dramatic and permanent.
  • Normal people compromise all the time; so do successful politicians and leaders. The fact that ideologues get a lot of publicity doesn’t mean that they represent the cultural norm. They don’t. They are outliers, and always will be. Why? Because if you don’t compromise in a democracy, you fail more often than not.
  • The six positions Penn listed omit what I would argue is the most powerful, logical and common one: “Most people are responsible, given some guidance and proper messages from society, and should not be prevented from having access to reasonable means of protection and self-defense that does not require reliance on the state. There will always be people who abuse their rights, and they will cause a great deal of harm, damage and tragedy, none of which justifies taking away the freedom of everyone else.”
  • America is not growing more violent. It is undeniably less violent than ever before. The crime statistics show this clearly. The belief that the U.S. is more violent arises from the “shark attack phenomenon.” Like shark attacks, local violent episodes are more widely publicized than ever, so the public’s fear is magnified along with the false belief that the phenomenon is rising. If you want to see violence, look at the Seventies—40 years ago.
  • Of course cultural consensus works in America. It’s extremely American, and works faster in this country than any other nation I know of. That’s one of the nation’s strengths, and also a constant peril.

I just think America will never stop loving guns.

5 thoughts on “Comment of the Day: “Ethics Quiz: Holder’s ‘Brainwash’ Comment”

  1. Back in the thread where Penn put his COTD, you wrote in response to my comment, preceding Penn’s, “My guess and my hope is that you are wrong.”

    But now, you have just said stuff in your response to Penn’s COTD that seems more like you mean to say that your guess is that I am right.

    In the other thread, I expressed an expectation that change will continue; you seem to agree in this thread, describing the shifts that are evident.

    What part of what you have said am I misreading? I’m really lost this time!

    • Note the last line. I think you’re wrong in the specific instance of guns, which I think is as permanent a part of US culture as there is. I think Penn is wrong that cultural shifts due to changing societal consensus isn’t American or possible.

      • Got it, thanks, and sorry for my confusion.

        I maintain though, that further shifts in favor of the “anti-violence consensus” are yet to come, are at least as likely (if not inevitable) as the other shifts we have seen and are seeing, and will (following the models of governance that have accompanied the preceding shifts) enable ever greater tolerance for ever more centralized, authoritarian government enforcement against individual citizens’ personal or “private” access to firearms.

        But, it is always possible that continued cultural rot will effectively serve to abort any future government’s competence at being successfully authoritarian, and that the passions of enough people will be sufficiently inflamed in time to resist and overpower even briefly successful authoritarian oppression, regardless of any ingrained, indoctrinated, “brainwashed” consensus against “violence.” One embodiment of violence may well prevail over another embodiment.

  2. I have never been a card-carrying member of the NRA. I did grow up in a military family, and a household where the children knew that our father (responsibly) kept a firearm for self-protection. My little old grandmother once shot 2 attackers – through her bedroom door – after they had broken into her home … most likely saving her life. (They were apprehended a short time later on her street attempting to flee, while injured – and they were armed with knives.) I still always believed I would NEVER keep a firearm in my home with young children.

    Then divorced an abusive man who has been clinically diagnosed with several psychiatric disorders and has threatened my safety and the safety of my children on numerous occasions. A restraining order is a piece of paper. It cannot keep a person safe. It can only prompt the arrest of someone known to violate the order AFTER the fact. The grim statistics and headlines where abusers with restraining orders in place have gone on to murder ex-wives/girlfriends and/or children bear this out all too clearly.

    So I took classes, got educated, became extremely well-trained, and am extraordinarily vigilant about the care and safety with which I protect myself and my children. This includes caring for my weapons and storing them so that my children can never have access to them. I know that I am doing what I can to keep us safe. There is no argument anyone can make to convince me that taking away this right will in any way make me feel safer.

    For many recreational hunters, the story may be different. For many without a clear and present danger need to defend themselves, the issues may not be as clear. But I believe that we have an unalienable right to protect ourselves and our offspring from mortal danger. Take the guns off the street. Legislate the heck out of what types of weapons can be legally purchased and take back the rest. But let us defend our homes and children! Because the police cannot have eyes and ears everywhere at once and abusers will stop at nothing.

  3. Hang on, Jack – I’m coming back atcha. Computer gone to the hospital; the public library’s 55 min/day allowance is neither long enough nor quiet enough to put a good response together … a noisy library; now there’s a societal shift for you! … so I’ll get back to you when the aether carries your aethics once more into my home.

    And I’d say thanks for the encouragement and the privilege of having a C of the D space, but I’m feeling the pressure. How DO your Tgt’s et al do it (I gave up trying to figure out how you do)?

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