Karen Klein is the 68- year-old bus monitor who is the unwilling star of a viral video (below) showing her being insulted and mocked by 12-year-olds on a school bus.
The video, which was uploaded to the internet by one of the mockers using his iPhone, has provoked an outpouring of indignation at the cruel conduct of the kids, with attendant pronouncements about the death of responsible parenting and how this younger generation has no respect for anyone. Meanwhile, Ms. Klein has been the beneficiary of one of those spontaneous outbreaks of generosity from people who won’t give to cancer research or to help feed the poor, but for whom the sight of an elderly woman weeping is just too much to bear. Over $500,00o has been raised online as a “vacation fund” for the former bus driver.
That’s a lot of money, I submit, to give to someone for not being able to do her job. Vacation fund? She was already on vacation, as far as I can see. Hearing radio callers talk about the video, I expected to see hormonal freak 12-year old thugs with five-o’clock shadows intimidating a waif of a woman. No. These were just kids, that’s all. Rude, undisciplined, mean kids who should be permanently banned from riding school buses and whose parents should be sent to remedial parenting school, but still kids, misbehaving toward an adult with authority because the adult was acting like a weak, passive slug, and has no more idea about how to supervise kids than she does about how to backstroke to Madagascar. The video shows a woman who just thinks she has a cushy job requiring nothing more than sitting and riding, never received any training, and doesn’t have the ability, wit, initiative or skill to shut down a bunch of little creeps who are acting out.
Fire her. Discipline the people who hired her. Use the video to show how not to be a bus monitor. If she performed the job she was hired to do, the taunting wouldn’t have happened: she was the adult, she was the monitor, and she was 100% responsible for allowing what happened to happen.
The people who are giving her money are rewarding irresponsible conduct and ineptitude, and you know, we have enough of that in the schools already. Let’s reward teachers who cry when students misbehave, and police officers who cry when the bad guys shoot at them, and Presidential candidates who cry when they are heckled! On the other hand, let’s not.
Let’s hire people to supervise our children who are capable of doing the job required of them.
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Spark: Chris Plante
Source: New York Times
Ethics Alarms attempts to give proper attribution and credit to all sources of facts, analysis and other assistance that go into its blog posts. If you are aware of one I missed, or believe your own work was used in any way without proper attribution, please contact me, Jack Marshall, at jamproethics@verizon.net.
Ethics Alarms 
I showed this clip to my girlfriend. The first thing she said was, “I wonder what authority was given to that woman. Does she have the authority to stop the bus and remove children that are misbehaving?” It’s a good question. It’s very difficult to rein in bad behaviour if you have no cards to play. It’s likely that the students on this bus knew that this woman was powerless and therefore they had zero respect for her. Without knowing what powers she had available to her, it’s hard to judge her inability to curtail disobedience.
No, it’s not. She stands up and says, “This stops now. I have each of your names, and I will not only report this to the school and your parents, but I will also make it my mission to see that you never get to ride on this bus again. We’ll see how your parents enjoy taking you to school for teh next 7 years. You don’t treat me like this, and you don’t treat any adult like this. The next child who opens his mouth will be suspended.”
They don’t know what authority she has or doesn’t have. She’s an adult. They are children. And any school monitor can stop a bus if it is warranted. What would she do if a child was beating up another kid? Clearly nothing.
I have no sympathy for her, She was stealing from taxpayers accepting any compensation to do nothing, with the ability to do nothing.
That may or may not have worked. While I agree it’s worth trying, I can easily imagine these kids laughing right in the face of your ultimatums. I think these kids know more about the powers, or lack thereof, of certain adults than you give them credit for. Kids are acutely aware of the weaknesses of authority figures.
Schools should provide monitors clear guidelines/training about how to work with children; grant powers to discipline students, and publicize those powers to the student body.
You have no sympathy for her, fine. But personally, I do feel sympathy and compassion for her; even if she is a lousy monitor, she’s still a human being with intrinsic value. She did not deserve the abuse levelled at her and we shouldn’t be blaming the victim for what happened to her.
Mr. Marshall those are harsh words for not having being physically present in that situation or similar situation with students. But everyone is entitled to their opinion. I seriously doubt I would had done any better than her. I say this because I have been a middle school teacher and I have a pretty good idea of what’s going on there. These type of students DO know very well what teachers and authority figures can and cannot do, trust me. They also know all the things they can get away with and it’s a lot. They are very witty, and sharp about it and they use it to their full advantage. They also know that when you write them up, which she said she had in the past, usually nothing happens specially towards the end of the school year. Did you know that districts frown on schools which have a high percentage of suspensions? Did you know that schools cannot go around just suspending students for verbally threatening and disrespecting a grown up in school? It has happened to me and not one got suspended. Suspensions are usually reserved for physical contact like fights because being disrespectful and mean to others is so widespread at some schools that schools cannot go around suspending students constantly through out the year. If she would had said “I am going to get you suspended if you don’t stop ” they would had just laughed because they all know better.
You don’t have to do better than her—you’re not a paid monitor. But if you know you couldn’t do better than her, than it would be irresponsible of you to accept a position requiring the ability TO monitor. Just as it was irresponsible of her to accept a job she had no intention of doing right.
The students can’t get away with anything unless an adult allows them to do so. Was the weepy monitor afraid of losing her job if she stopped the abuse? Then she accepted the trade-off, and serves no sympathy at all. Was she unable to control a bus of kids? Then she was incompetent.
She’s part of the system that allows abuse, not a victim of it. That should be obvious. The children do not run the schools. If they do, the adults, not the kids, are at fault.
I haven’t watched the video. I avoid any videos where someone is humiliated. What do you think of the publishing of the video itself? (I don’t know if it was done out of malice or to shame the kids).
It was posted by one of the kids. The other kids were playing to the video, so I’m assuming it was done to further humiliate the woman.
OK, I didn’t know for sure if it was one of the kids posting it in an attempt to humiliate her or if it was posted by someone (maybe the woman herself) who wanted to admonish the KIDS.
This is, I think, another good reason not to watch videos like this. It keeps the obvious sympathetic emotional response out of the equation. Someone might say, “how can you respond to it if you don’t watch it?” How can I respond to it rationally if I do? I don’t need to hear the screeching little shits belittle some old lady to know that it happened, and if I do, then there’s a greater chance my response will get less and less rational.
I’m not sure I’m quite as hard on her as you are, but I can’t fault the conclusion. She should find a different job, and the kids should be sent to Mongolia.
I had to share this, Jack. This story has taken on a life of its own and I’m stunned that so many people are so easily blind to an essential issue in this story – that the woman was the adult and did nothing. The most recent stories say that some of the children have been identified on the Web and have received death threats and other communications from strangers all over.
Klein became the symbol of undeserved cruelty rather than a symbol for incompetence because people people are more passionate about bullying than they are about the work ethic of bus monitors.
At first I felt somewhat like I understood how she handled it because it was the last day of school. Who wants to drag out a situation like this when everyone just wants summer to begin? She also might not have any real authority. The bus driver probably wanted to get home too maybe she was thinking? But then I saw how two other videos were posted on other days with the same kids and her wearing different outfits. Then my first thought was, what would it take for this “monitor” raise a finger —would she rise to the aid of anyone else —another kid?
However, I do appreciate her “fostering an environment of civility by example” approach to her way of not handling it. Even though it failed in this situation to keep a safe environment for kids and adults. Imagine the other kids who did nothing…they wanted their summers to begin unscathed too and must’ve decided it wasn’t worth it to defend her either.
On donations: I don’t care what people’s reasons are for why they give their money. I think other people’s money is none of my business when it comes to charity. It seems that people are ashamed of what happened and feel like giving their money to her will help it. Obviously, there’s no logic to this, but it’s the way it is. They wouldn’t be giving their money to cancer if this hadn’t happened. And actually, this might benefit people’s hope for the entire community by the amazing amount that has been raised…and this might all get payed forward in other ways.
I disagree with the overall gist of your piece because while your points are correct in every way, just like kids will be kids, —nearly retired bus monitors will continue to be incompetent as they’ve always been too.
While I’d like to see bus monitors do their jobs, I care way more the problem of bullying, which I think will always exist independent of a strong work ethic by 68yos with hearing aids. This case is particularly interesting because the boys filmed it themselves and uploaded it onto youtube to be famous. They thought it sounded like a good idea. To me, that goes to show that they need some punishment -not reinforcement for their behavior.
Wow. That comment makes no sense whatsoever.
Who cares what you “care about”? I care about who wins the AL East, but it doesn’t affect what happened on the bus. The bullying occurred because the woman wouldn’t and couldn’t do her job. This episode isn’t remotely about bullying. It’s about what happens when kids aren’t supervised. She caused the incident. If she does her job, there is no tape, no extended mistreatment, nothing. “I do appreciate her “fostering an environment of civility by example” approach to her way of not handling it”…are you serious? A teacher who allows her kids to go nuts and does nothing is also teaching by example, I suppose? You’re like something out an ethics hypothetical! She wasn’t setting an example…she was being a passive, useless, slug. What kind of example is that?
Then your grand conclusion is that bus monitors will always be incompetent—so it’s OK??? Teachers will always try to have sex with underage students—so that’s fine?? Businesses will always be run by executives who don’t obey the law…so we should just shrug it off? Yes, absolutely, what difference does it make how people spend their money. Let them give money to encourage criminals, adulterers, cheaters, muggers, liars, litterers…hey, that’s OK, because you don’t care.
Your attitude of passive involvement is an abdication of your duty to participate in setting and enforcing culural ethical standards, not that you have the slightest clue what those are, based on this mind-exploding comment.
I’m going to beat my head against the wall now.
I do not know this woman. I do not know what this school district’s hiring requirements for bus monitors are. All I have seen is the video. This woman is ill-equipped to handle this type of situation. Some people are not assertive enough to take command of a situation, even with training and even with mere kids. She is the wrong person for the job!!! And the response from the public is way over the top. She is being rewarded for not being able to do a job she was hired to do. Based on what I saw, she should have been terminated for an inability to do the job.
I don’t think she is being rewarded like you say. She is being helped to get over terrible suffering that was inflicted on her and caught on video.
Has anyone here actually been a bus monitor like Ms. Klein? Just what IS the job of one? What ARE the monitors supposed to accomplish? How DOES one qualify for the job? It seems like there was an obvious and terrible mismatch between her actual job environment, versus what she expected – never mind how prepared, or unprepared, or qualified, or unqualified, she was to do her job in the first place – but we don’t know any of that (or do we?).
I recall a recent post of Jack’s about an elderly man who avenged the humiliation he suffered decades before, when he was in high school. Perhaps the young “stars” of this video ought to be hoping (if not praying – you know, that horrible, threatening activity that you’re not supposed to do in public schools?) that Klein doesn’t spend her “vacation fund” on a hit man. Heck, I only mention it because with the viral publicity, for all any of us know, there’s already someone out there stalking the brats to avenge Klein’s humiliation for free. You know, all it would take would be for one of the perps to disappear, and then to have his tongue and a few of his teeth mailed to his home (or to the home of one of his fellow bullies-on-the-bus) with an appropriate note, and then we could see how many more videos like this would go public.
But more seriously, I’m with Yardley. I am not going to blame THIS victim, Ms. Klein. I don’t understand why she didn’t at least stand up during one of the bus stops, go to the driver, and firmly make a request related to keeping the bus stopped, until SOMEONE (perhaps the police, perhaps one or more of the parents of one or more of the students) was contacted, and requested to come to the scene and remove one or more of the offenders (to take them home, and/or to otherwise appropriately alter their custody). But, even thinking of that possible course of action may be only wishful projection, utterly unrealistic for whatever reason, and unfair to Klein. This much is clear: That was not a safe bus ride, because of what was going on there. Klein was in an environment of hostility that constituted not just an encroachment on her dignity, but a terroristic threat.
So nowadays, kids get away with saying, “fat ass” instead of “faggot?” Such progress!
I don’t understand this logic at all. She isn’t a victim. She caused the problem. A bus monitor is supposed to keep order on the bus. She didn’t even try. She allowed her self to be treated like a kid, and that gave the real kids the encouragement to continue. Unqualified police nurture criminal activity. Unqualified monitors nurture bad conduct. I might even argue that the kids are the victims. If adults don’t do their jobs ans teachers and authority figures, they get warped…and it’s not their fault. Klein created an environment of hostility.
“It seems like there was an obvious and terrible mismatch between her actual job environment, versus what she expected – never mind how prepared, or unprepared, or qualified, or unqualified, she was to do her job in the first place – but we don’t know any of that (or do we?).”
Huh? Sure we do. The tape shows a woman doing nothing when she was supposed to be in charge. At the age of 89, my father, the old drill sergeant, would have no more allowed that nonsense to continue than he would have let one of the kids kill another one. Do you realize how dangerous it is to have a non-functioning monitor whose reaction to misconduct is tears? If one of the kids started doing something violent, would her reaction have been to scream or perseverate?
Her doing of nothing as seen in the video is absolutely not enough to conclude that she is unfit for her job. Maybe Ms. Klein will use some of the donations she’s received to mount a successful lawsuit for damages she has suffered. She could sue the school district or school. She could sue specific authorities in the district or school. She could sue the parents of the jackals (LOVE that spot-on accurate term!). She could cause those poor kids and their household custodians to have to walk or pedal bikes everywhere they go for a good number of years, unable to afford any motor vehicle by ownership or rental. She might even be able to sue the bus driver. Heaven only knows who else she could sue, and collect abundantly from.
Of course, I said “poor kids” above in sarcasm. Jack you are twisting your argument for holding Klein culpable into an unintelligible knot – first, with presumptions about whatever power you think the lady had in that situation, and then, rambling down some bizarre track of holding her accountable for “enabling” to the extent that the BRATS are the victims.
Wow. You’ve drunk the Kool-Aid, my friend. Students who are saddled with weak authority figures and role models ARE victims.
I agree with your second sentence in general, but I disagree that it is a point relevant solely to Ms. Klein in this specific case on video.
What you have a 10 minute clip of a video. You don’t know what happened before someone started recording. You don’t know what’s happened in the past on this bus. You don’t know her history with these particular kids. She did say that she typically sits in the back, but on this day, that was the only seat open. And so she was surrounded by a pack of nasty little jackals.
Perhaps she had brought this to the attention of proper authorities before and nothing was done. Maybe she was feeling ill. Could she do the job for which she was hired? Who knows. She used to be a bus driver. Why wasn’t she doing that any longer? Maybe she couldn’t physically handle it. You don’t know. I don’t either.
I do know that she’s 68 and on her Facebook page says that she can’t retire because of financial reasons, has to continue to work, but it’s okay, because she likes it fine. Sixty eight and working as a bus monitor? In my book, that’s not okay. That smacks of desperation.
You make a lot of assumptions. I’m making some assumptions too, but also adding information to the conversation which you’ve left out. Perhaps everyone ~ you, me, all of us ~ should shut up until the facts are known. And even then, perhaps we should shut up because it not our business.
She had a terrible, humiliating, sad thing happen. Many people were touched by that. She’s received an overwhelming, unexpected windfall. Good for her.
“Perhaps she had brought this to the attention of proper authorities before and nothing was done.”
Then it was her duty to quit, not be part of the irresponsible system. Her fault.
“Maybe she was feeling ill.”
If you are too ill to do your job, it is your misconduct to pretend to be able to do your job. Her fault.
“Could she do the job for which she was hired? Who knows.”
“Who knows?” Isn’t it obvious from the video? The answer is NO.
“She used to be a bus driver. Why wasn’t she doing that any longer? Maybe she couldn’t physically handle it. You don’t know. I don’t either.”
It’s irrelevant. The fact that she can’t do one job does not entitle her to another, or qualify her for another. You are just an adult version of those kids…entitled, unwilling to accept responsibility, reality and consequences, because people like you alwyas had an excuse for who you shouldn’t be held accountable.
“I do know that she’s 68 and on her Facebook page says that she can’t retire because of financial reasons, has to continue to work, but it’s okay, because she likes it fine. Sixty eight and working as a bus monitor? In my book, that’s not okay. That smacks of desperation.”
So desperate people who can’t do their jobs should accept responsibilities they are incapable of fulfilling in the school system and thus rob children of proper oversight and competent role models? And you still say SHE’S the victim? She has no right to make the schools pay her to do something she can’t do well. School budgets are strapped. They are not a charity agency.
“You make a lot of assumptions. I’m making some assumptions too, but also adding information to the conversation which you’ve left out.”
Really? And what assumptions are those weeping with her making? Maybe she had tortured the children in the past. Maybe the kids knew she was a terrorist spy. Or maybe the situation is exactly as it appears, and what you are doing is desperately trying to rationalize indefensible behavior, because you can’t think through the actual elements of the event, and apply basic rules of duty and obligation.
“And even then, perhaps we should shut up because it not our business.”
Then shut up about the kids, too. As I said, you are the problem. We pay for schools. When they are incompetent, it is our business. When we assign blame in the wrong places when blatant ineptitude and breach of duty comes to our attention, and reward the wrongdoer, we encourage bad standards system wide. And we let people like you warp basic concepts or right, wrong, duty and obligation. Damn right it’s my business. It’s everybody’s business.
Regardless of whatever the monitor’s job requirements are, it is a huge leap of faith to conclude, based only on that video, that Klein failed to “apply basic rules of duty and obligation.” That’s why I tried to say yesterday that I don’t understand why she just sat there, but that it is unjust toward her to conclude that there was anything else she could do. Clearly, though, the environment was hostile enough to allow that an ordinarily competent monitor may have been frozen in terror. Jack, you are attacking Klein as if she should be ashamed of herself for not pulling off a one-woman United Flight 93. Shame, then, on the passengers of those other 9-11 airliners for letting terror have its way.
????????!!!!!
WHAT??? These were pre-teens, not terrorists! There isn’t a Catholic school nun alive who wouldn’t have shaped up that bus in a minute flat! What a ridiculous comment!
Wishful dismissiveness.
Baloney.
Come on, you sensitive soul, what would be your sympathy level for the monitor if those kids turned their nastiness on a weak, timid young girl, and they began hurting her—and her response was only to weep and say things as forceful as, “If you can’t do anything nice…” Would you pity her, for taking up space in a role that has the duty to keep the kids safe? THEN she’d be the bad guy, because someone else other than her got hurt? Or would you still “pity” her?
Yes, I might still pity her, despite any disappointment I would probably also feel toward any adults on the scene, who I would have hoped could take control of the hypothetical situation you posed. themis2k appears to be the only commenter so far who has researched enough to confirm the inherent powerlessness of the monitor to stop hurtful behaviors, whether they be against other passengers or against the monitor herself.
Just found out there is a march in her honor tonight in her hometown of Greece. This just keeps getting better.
I think you are making a lot of assumptions for which you have no foundations. I’ll take the other side of the argument. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this woman had little to no authority. Had she so much as scolded these feral little jackals, their parents would have likely come storming into the school because she was mean to their darling little babies. Children don’t become like this overnight; it takes years of getting away with bad behavior for them to even think of attempting to say such things to anyone, let alone an authority figure. One of the kids talked about breaking into her home and defecating in her mouth. That is so far beyond normal that I can’t even imagine how much that hateful little beast has gotten away with in the past.
Is it possible that she’s just incompetent? Sure, but I think that’s less likely than a scenario in which she just wasn’t allowed to do much more. We are living in a culture in which teachers can’t fail children who don’t do their work because it hurts their self esteem and in which parents berate anyone who disciplines their children because they are precious little jewels who can do no wrong.
Finally, your characterization of people who donated money as “people who won’t give to cancer research or to help feed the poor” is a ridiculous and pathetic attempt to get people wound up. As far as I know, thousands of people have donated; the likelihood that all or even most don’t donate to other causes is statistically zero.
Either way, the fact of the matter is that you are raving about something that is none of your concern. If people what to donate money to this woman or to fund a colony on the moon or even to dye the country’s water supply purple, it’s not really your business. You imply that people should donate to worthier causes; shouldn’t you be spending your energy focusing on more important issues?
Weak, Lori,
1. Of course she had authority. She’s an adult, they are kids. She was a monitor, and that means, at very least, she had the authority to monitor. She didn’t. People have authority to at the very least stop people from verbally abusing them. If she had so little authority that she couldn’t monitor, she was aiding in a fraud on the parents, who believed that their student had competent adult supervision. Excuses.
2.Who cares how hateful they are? She put up with it. She allowed it. She wept, She made pathetic statements like “If you can’t say something nice…” Ridiculous. She was doing nothing, expecting to be paid to do nothing.
3. Wasn’t allowed to do much more? Who was stopping her? Don’t tell me she wasn’t allowed to tell the students forcefully not to be disrespectful. She couldn’t belt them or throw them off the bus, but no school directs supervisors to accept personal abuse. You’re just rationalizing indefensible conduct.
4. These are the short-sighted people who can only comprehend anecdotal causes and are unable to grasp real and major needs. You have no idea what other causes these people do or don’t give to, but I guarantee that they have collectively wasted $500,000 that could do some real good and save lives, rather than reward a dud bus monitor.
5. I do focus on more important issues. There are 2600 posts here—that comment is lazy and ignorant. But the public’s inability to see the real culprit in a situation like this is also serious.
Rewarding incompetence publicly is my business, because incompetence eventually hurts all of us, and the country.
Just because you’ve obviously made up your mind doesn’t mean you are right. You must lead a sheltered life indeed if you think that an adult can say so much as “Boo” to some children without their parents raising one heck of a ruckus. We don’t know any backstory; just as it’s possible that she was incompetent (and I acknowledged above that yes, it is possible), it’s also possible that she has been told by the school to do no more than make sure the children don’t kill each other. It’s also possible that she’s tried to put her foot down in the past and been reprimanded. We just don’t know. What is ignorant is deciding what must have happened rather than finding out the actual facts.
You are also incredibly naive if you think for a second that telling a pack of middle-school bullies who’ve gotten away with everything to be respectful is going to do anything but make it worse. These children behave as if no one has ever given them consequences; how on earth do you expect a bus monitor who likely has to tiptoe around them to be the first?
I’ve not read your other “pots,” and I’m certainly not inclined to do so now. I presented a potential other side of an argument (all the while acknowledging that like you, I don’t actually know what happened), and your basic response was to scream “nuh-uh!” The fact that you refuse to acknowledge any merit in any post that disagrees with you shows that you’re more interested in ranting and raving than creating a dialogue to potentially change how situations like this are handled in the future. I’m not particularly interested in providing fuel for your foolishness, so I won’t be coming back to this site.
You do display every feature of a debater without ammunition…highlighting typos is an especially bright symptom.
If you read the blog fairly, you would see that I usually acknowledge merit in contrary posts, except when they have none.
Like yours. Disagreement without enlightenment, knowledge or rational perspective, based on false assumptions and rationalizations, is useless.
Come on, Jack: Klein has not been rewarded for her incompetence; she has been helped by kind strangers who recognize undeserved suffering and who want to help her to escape such suffering, regardless of whether or not she is competent for the job she was working in the video.
She deserved it. Not the ab use, but the humiliation. She is a classic entitled slacker. She was responsible for her plight, and “helping her” endorses her ineptitude. I don’t understand sympathy for people who get in trouble because they can’t do their job
Entitled slacker, responsible for her plight, inept – all that, conclusively proved by one 10-minute video. Right. Just as obviously, she fails to use her prescriptions as directed.
Excuse me? The video shows her in affirmative inaction. The video is what is inspiring all that “pity.” I’m basin g mu judgment on exactly the same data as the fools throwing money at her. What exactly is it that you think could mitigate what we see?
I was going to ask you the same thing. I gave a hint at what I would have done in her place, when I said that I did not understand why she did not have the bus stopped and kept stopped, until civility was restored one way or another. But given her tactical position of being surrounded and hounded as she was – threatened, really – I could not blame her for not getting the driver’s attention to stop the bus.
Amen Jack, amen. I’ve been simply unable to understand the direction the reaction has taken, especially the donations. Weepy bus monitor who can’t do her job gets a fortune…
Boo, Jack, boo. You don’t understand pity??
Pity the students in a school that cares so little about them that they allow incompetents to “monitor” their safety and welfare. This uninformed pity, for gullible, uncritical saps.
We’ll probably never know, but I suspect the bus monitor job is designed to be even more devoid of authority than a U.N. election observer.
Read my lips: THEN—SHE—IS—PARTY —TO—A—FRAUD—-ON—THE—PARENTS, who think their kids are being responsibly supervised.
‘Boo, Jack, boo. You don’t understand pity??’
You don’t understand gross incompetence? Would you want this woman looking after your children? The kids picked on her because they could, because they knew she’d do nothing. She could not do her job. She does not deserve the media coverage, she has done nothing remarkable but be totally lousy at the job she was hired for.
Would you want to have the job of looking after THOSE children? What would you have done in Klein’s place? What gives you the assurance that you would have been able to do anything to stop that cruel gang-ambush/pack-dog behavior? And just how does a competent bus monitor turn back and stop that kind of attack? The woman had no power whatsoever vested in her to do anything anyway, except maybe say “Tut-tut! Now, pipe down and sit still.” It’s unfortunate that she didn’t happen to have the wits about her to say something like: “Keep that video rollin’ dude, you’re gonna make me RICH!” It wouldn’t have made a difference if she was Wonder Woman – she was powerless. I have not read one specific suggestion yet from any of the many tough guys in this thread, all of who could have done Klein’s job SO competently, on what she should have done, with any assurance that had she done it, it would have (1) been effective and (2) been legal. Pony up: You say she could not do her job. Okay, then, you must know what she could have done in order to prove herself able to do her job. So, what would you have done?
“The woman had no power whatsoever vested in her to do anything anyway”
How do you know that for a fact? You keep saying that…but if that’s the case, why even have bus monitors? There must be more than one bus for this school, but all the bus monitors aren’t crying….is that because, they can do their jobs?
I am familiar with bullying tactics, and this kind of verbal attack does not happen out of the blue one day on the bus. Bullying starts out small and escalates. It blew up into this attack, most likely because nothing was done at the paper-throwing stage (an example of how this kind of thing starts) I’m willing to bet this was a long time in coming. My answer? Confront the kids and stop it in the beginning stages.
How do you know for a fact that she did have any power? I read you as jumping to conclusions on multiple presumptions, just like Jack. Even if she did have power (as in authorization to take some action she did not take), the abuse the video shows her suffering gives reason to believe she may have judged correctly that taking authorized action would have escalated rather than calmed the ruckus.
Yes, the video proves she was an utter, utter coward. I’d say bursting out crying when children say mean things to you is res ipsa loquitur that you have no business supervising children under any circumstances. No? She was an adult, they were kids. That means she had power—according to society, according to law, according to tradition, according to common sense. Good lord! What weird alien hierarchy were you raised in? Lord of the Flies?
‘How do you know for a fact that she did have any power?’
That’s not answering question, Eeyoure….you stated time and time again that ‘she had no power’ and I asked you what you based it on…
He bases it on the job description, which defines neither power nor authority, and certainly not obligation or responsibility in a situation like that.
“Bullying starts out small and escalates. It blew up into this attack, most likely because nothing was done at the paper-throwing stage (an example of how this kind of thing starts).”
Yes, that’s it exactly. Having been a substitute teacher for a two years, I learned early on that the kids will test you the minute you walk in the door. Or, in this case, as soon as you take your seat at the back of the bus. If you “ignore it and hope it will go away,” you’re doomed.
Ms. Klein had the authority all along. At the first disrespectful remark, there was nothing stopping her from saying loudly and firmly “You do NOT talk to ME like that!” then taking their names and reporting them to the principal. I don’t know what the procedure was in the Greece school system, but most likely they would not have been allowed to ride the bus for two or three days.
According to Wikipedia, she’d been a bus monitor for three years. (take that with a grain of salt, of course) Which makes you wonder… Hadn’t she had any training or supervision? Was anyone besides the kids at the back of the bus aware of just how badly she was performing her job?
That video made me so angry. I just wanted to scream “Stop it! They’re doing it to you because you let them!” The fact that she got $600,000 in donations infuriates me as well. That’s an insult to all the bus monitors out there who actually protect the children under their care and don’t take any crap from the bullies.
And if a bus monitor like Ms. Klein were on my daughters bus, I’d want her off the bus.
An auspicious debut here, Judy! I think I’d like your post even if it didn’t agree with me.
We’re hindsighting in circles around ourselves now, and we still don’t have any more to justify our hindsight than (1) the video, (2) a couple of vague things Klein has said since going public, and (3) our projections of ourselves into the situation we think Klein faced. What has me feeling resentful are the inferences and conclusions that Klein should never have been in her monitor job in the first place, should have been fired long before the video incident, etc. I don’t understand how so many of you commenters can get so cocksure of Klein’s prior established incompetence.
Certainly: if I could be the boss, after viewing the video, I would not have Klein on the same bus with those kids ever again, and possibly never again monitoring on any bus. But that would be doing only part of the boss’s job. Another part of the boss’s job is to make sure no similar situation, like was shown in the video, ever occurs again on any bus in my charge. That’s the tougher part of the job. I remain willing to believe the work required to do that part would result in discoveries – including discovery of what led to Klein’s evident on-the-job paralysis, and obstacles to long-term “rectification” involving future monitors – that would (1) correctly cast Klein as momentarily incompetent for reasons far beyond her control, and (2) confirm the terribly limited power that I, and all who are responsible for cooperating with me, have (individually and in concert) to make sure future “Gross Klein Abuse” is prevented.
Do you really think this was some bus from hell? Don’t you comprehend that the reason the students behaved that was was BECAUSE Klein was weak? If a competent monitor who commanded respect had been on board, they wouldn’t have acted any differently than any other kids on a bus. They sensed a weak and vulnerable victim who could be bullied, and that turned some of them into bullies.
You’re getting close to my point here. Without knowing WHY Klein was weak, we on the outside of the bus monitor job have no clue as to whether Klein could have commanded the respect you are assuming she was incompetent to command, in the situation she faced.
If she wasn’t capable, then she shouldn’t have been there. There is no interpretation that excuses her, unless it is that the Enterprise beamed het on broad without her consent. In that case, you are right.
I doubt that is what happened.
This is a.win win. With that money the moniter should be able to retire. Now she no longer needs to be abused by the precious little darlings. Conversly with that money.she can now retire, and the district can hire a more aggresive monitor to keep the little.ankle biters in check.
. My elder sister drove a bus for 20 years . The high school kids i knew growing up who had her as a bus driver were terrified of her and when they found out she was my sister they always expressed that they she was a mean tough bitch who they wouldnt cross. These were tough kids from the RT One corridor in Fairfax County so its not like they were nice little suburban kids. She was all of 5 feet tall and 98 pounds. So i dont want to hear this woman didnt have the “authority” she was the adult and should have acted like one or got off the bus.
Congratulations to your sister, Bill, but fallacious with additional unfairness to Klein – different times and places, different people.
True but as an adult she has the responcabilty as an adult to stand up to these kids. I can understand why she may not have and she never should have been treated like this but she allowed herself to be abused by being passive. That doesnt excuse the childrens behavior but as an adult she should have at least tried to defend herself and stop it.
Of course.
There’s no argument that the kids behaved atrociously, but poorly raised and supervised kid always act atrociously.
I am a few years older than this woman, mother and grandmother. I am an elected commissioner but have to take an active role in running a small park which used to have park monitors my age or older. They were ineffective and served no purpose – they were just there. We eliminated the positions but the residents petitioned to have them rehired, because they had a false sense of security with them in the park. Actually, they increased our liability. We replaced them with younger people with much better results. I spent many an evening walking the park and did “battle” with a group of girls from the next village. They disobeyed anything I told them about park rules, challenged me, and called me names. For the most part, I was firm in insisting that they had to behave or leave, I laughed at/with them but never backed down. By the end of summer I knew who they were, where they lived, and by then they were my best friends. This episode on the bus took place on the last day of school. I can’t believe that this bullying only took place on that particular day when it was filmed. I fault this woman if this was a year-long problem and she did nothing about it. If this was a first-time incident, she could have followed through with a formal complaint.
Thanks. I’ve been waiting for you.
Right on, straight to the point!
After reading the few comments – my only addition is that if the bus monitor, bus driver, and teachers, etc are not empowered the authority to stop these types of behavior, then the School Board Directors need to be VOTED OUT OF OFFICE! These school authorities MUST BE EMPOWERED. I am hoping that a good lawyer sees this – and a notice to all school boards – DO YOUR JOB! If any child or person is hurt by this, it is time for lawsuits. And the School Districts needs to lose!
My initial reaction to the video was that Mrs. Klein was in shock or just about scared to death. I found it very possible she never encountered such vile behavior in her life (against her own self).
Some of the thoughts that ran through my own head were of teachers and students who had been murdered by young people not through any fault of their own. Schools have become very dangerous places these days.
Stuck in a seat in the middle of a bus with four teenage boys cursing and reviling her is not the norm nor should it be expected. In addition, they wanted her children to kill themselves; ironically, her oldest son committed suicide 10 years earlier. I can’t imagine the searing pain that could have gone through her head and body as she remembered that awful day 10 years before. Then to add to it, they actually threatened to stab her.
The anger that may have been rising in her to strike back had to paralyze her if she was remembering how other monitors were arrested or teachers and school children killed.
It also struck me that the bus driving had to have heard the commotion and comments yet did nothing.
I took the time to research job descriptions for bus monitors. Seems there are requirements for either sitting in the front or back. She was supposed to be in the back of the bus but all the seats were taken (was this deliberate because the event was pre-planned?). Some schools also appoint other students to be a monitor thus they don’t have to pay anyone.
Basically all the job descriptions include the monitor standing outside the door of the bus making sure all children entered (when school was over) and when going into to school that all left the bus. Some of the duties included cleaning the bus when it was empty. Monitors don’t have any authority except to report incidents to a designated school official.
Again, these are my feelings and thoughts while watching the video. I just took it one step further by checking out the job descriptions.
You’re spinning. They weren’t teens. They were pre-teens. If she’s scared of pre-teens, she’s in the wrong job. If she can’t tell kids to move out of her seat, she’s in the wrong job. Any adult supervisor has INHERENT authority to 1) protect herself 2) control the children if they threatened the safety of the bus or any of the students. In shock? Shock? Over what?? A typical kid puts up with worse daily, and she’s an adult. Do parents go into “shock” when their children say cruel thinks to them?
The insistence of people that this woman should be not merely exonerated but pitied for her atrocious abdication of duty and complete failure to exercise authority is more frightening than the conduct of the children by far, and more significant.
Clearly, research = “spinning” here, themis. (That is sarcasm.)
I resent that. The “research” had no bearing on the issue, and simply because you refuse to accept that adults have inherent authority over children in this and any other society doesn’t make it otherwise. You refuse to address the issue of whether she was empowered to stop one kid from beating another to a bloody pulp. If so (and the answer is obviously yes, or the school would be sued into operating in a tent.), then she has authority to assert authority and stop them from abusing her. She didn’t have to lift a finger against them. She had to show some adult assertiveness and character, and make the CHILDREN respect her.
Spinning is obfuscating the clear indication of the facts with distracting side-issues. That is exactly what “research” about her official job description accomplishes. Every job has inherent duties that are not specified, but she would have an ethical duty to control the children as a random adult who happened to be in the bus.
Yes, you’re right, I don’t believe, and won’t believe, that adults have inherent authority over children in every circumstance. That’s what we’ve come to, and your blog is a gold mine of expose’s on that. The circumstances of Klein on the bus with the bullies is just one more pathetic reflection of a society with its justice out of order. For all we know, Klein has stepped between bullies and the bullied dozens of times on school buses. What’s on the video is nothing like a tussle between students that she could have broken-up. It was a siege, and she was the target. In case you have never been besieged like that before, one’s fulfillment of inherent and ethical duties tend to get trumped by whatever actions (or inactions) may be necessary to cope with a situation so bad that any course of response would likely make it only worse for all involved. Most baffling is how you can say that her job description is irrelevant, yet say she should not have that job, no matter how much or how little authority her job vests her with. If you have ever been cornered like Klein was, and found a way out, first, congratulations; secondly, I am happy for you and for everyone you have benefitted since, and thirdly, it would probably benefit many future school bus monitors if you could tell your tale in a way that others could adopt and apply.
It’s very easy to criticize any number of issues in hindsight. The monitor told TV interviewers she believed ignoring the terrorist children would be the easiest way to halt their behavior by trying not to exacerbate the situation. Whether right or wrong she did what she felt was appropriate.
The person who started the fund was hoping to raise $5000. As of today, it has exceeded $650,0000. In addition an airline is sending her and her family and grandchildren to Disney World at their expense.
She’s begging the public to STOP the death threats against the children because it’s the worst form of bullying. She doesn’t want them criminally punished either.
Jack, you should be pleased. She has enough money to retire so this alleged inept school bus monitor will no longer be on the job.
Allegedly inept?
No, I’m not pleased to see passive inertia rewarded, and voluntary victimhood lionized.
“Whether right or wrong she did what she felt was appropriate.” In what world does doing what you think is right immunize you from criticism when it is obviously wrong? She’s still accountable for an impotent response and a failure to deal with the problem.
One thing I’d like to point out is that by Klein doing nothing, she allowed the other children on the bus to have to witness the scene between her and the four middle school children. My son would have been very upset to hear and watch such an interaction, but at age 9 I don’t know if he would have said anything or just sit quiet and be saddened and scared by the actions of those four children and the inaction of Klein. She put all of those children within earshot in a horrible position to watch an adult cowed by a few 12-year-olds.
Great point; I hadn’t thought about that, but it is clearly true. The “lessons” a child learns from something like that can be disturbing and very harmful.
Another point well taken Debbie. If she couldn’t protect herself, what in heck would she have done if one of the kids was pounding on another kid? She sat on that seat and did absolutely nothing to protect herself – they could have put a mannequin on the seat and it would have been just as effective.
I am fairly certain that the bus that Klein and the brats were riding in together is a Stand-Your-Ground Law-free zone. The more relevant question is, what in heck COULD she have done, legally, if one of the kids was pounding on another kid? My guess is that Klein would have been arrested and charged with assault on whatever kid she might have been able to overpower (never mind getting sued by at least one parent), even if the kid she overpowered was in the act of overpowering and brutalizing another kid. That’s how twisted the administration of justice is in matters like these, and we all know it. I really am starting to hope she hires a hit man; if I were her, my list of “jobs” would be lengthening by the hour.
No, it’s not. There was an adult witness, the driver. You’re in fantasy land. Nobody’s suggesting that she beat the kids; a competent adult wouldn’t have to. This isn’t even a close call.
I wasn’t suggesting she beat the kids, either. I was saying that we all know how these things go. Talk about wishful thinking! Klein’s slightest direct contact with any of the bullies for any reason, in any circumstances on that bus, would have resulted in her being fired and sued. Okay, here’s another brainstorm: Maybe she could have kept watching out the windows for signs of police or passersby, and screamed RAPE. I’m beginning to believe the bus driver was either blind and deaf, or otherwise “superior in incompetence” to Klein – probably equally terrifed.
“Klein’s slightest direct contact with any of the bullies for any reason, in any circumstances on that bus, would have resulted in her being fired and sued.”
Sued for WHAT??? I’m sorry, Eeyore, but we don’t “all know” this fantasy. Fear of nebulous laws suits is no more legitimate than fear of leprechauns, and someone who is paralyzed from doing anything or interacting with anyone because of such unjustifiable fears is just using their ignorance as an excuse. In fact, a school district whose monitor stands by and allows harm to come to children in its care IS in danger of being sued, and should be sued. The fact that there is a monitor on the bus that is a slug when parents think there is adult supervision is a misrepresentation.
Your position is based on the unwarranted—but novel!— theory that all parents are litigious fools, which is not true, and that all 12-year-olds are omnnipotent brutes, immune from the influence of responsible older authority figures unlike children throughout recorded time. In fact, almost all bullies back down with minimal resistance.
Well, I think it is your fantasy that my theory is unwarranted-but-novel, and that Klein was unjustifiably ignorant and fearful. The suing you mention only strengthens my point. It’s a Catch-22-suing world nowadays.
I rescued a boy in my park who was being taunted by three other boys. I got between them, told off the three and walked the bullied kid home. Bullies usually back off when they meet resistance. If the kids had gotten physical I probably would have waded in, and suffered the consequences. Most of my life was spent on the south side of Chicago. If you want to survive, you have to be tough – especially when you’re old and are perceived as weak.
The school bus monitor said on one of those morning shows, when asked whatever was she going to do with all that money? She said nothing about a vacation. She said she was going to buy her adult daughter, who was sitting next to her, a car because she needed one. And her other adult children, well she said, they all need something! I wonder how those people who donated over 1/2 million dollars feel now that they’re helping support her grown children. Now that’s some great benefits for an impassive bus rider!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, that’s exactly it: the cash outpouring is emotional and irrational, and addresses none of the real problems with the event. She doesn’t need a vacation—the way she handled her job was vacation. The donations reward her for inertia, lack of initiative and cowardice.
Hey, it just occurred to me, maybe the impassive bus rider (monitor?) should split her “prize money” with the kid who videotaped the whole thing. At least he did something!
Absolutely!!!
Maybe, now that Klein’s daughter will be so equipped, those entitled boy wonders of media – formerly mere school bus-riders and terrorizers-of-elderly – will graduate to carjacking. Maybe they’ll get that on video, too.
It all (once again) comes down to people taking personal responsibility. I am so sick of the “it’s not your job” and “it’s none of your business” excuses. It is every person’s responsibility to make sure laws are followed and that standards of conduct are met. Else, we have no laws and standards of conduct and live in anarchy. Sometimes taking personal responsibility involves risk. So what? Is everone that afraid of being reprimanded or sued?
How many people do you see that LIE and tell a stranger asking for directions that they don’t know the way? How many people do you know who will report inproper conduct on the subway. I am not a transit police officer. No, it’s not my job. But if people like me don’t report inappropriate behavior or do something about it, it will continue and escalate. It is also everyone’s responsibility to point out the error someone makes when they throw a banana peel on the Metro platform or drop trash on the ground. “Excuse me. You dropped something.” It’s unfortunate that doing so makes you a target for ridicule and scorn. I have received many nasty comments and have even been followed out of the Metro by 20-somethings I’ve reported for consuming alcohol on subway trains. I have been yelled at by 20 year old college students that I have no business touching their belongings. “No, I don’t. But I would rather have you yelling at me than have you in my office crying because someone stole your $2000 laptop you left unattended in my library for 2 hours while you went to dinner or class.”
Had I been on that bus, I would have told those boys to close their mouths, sit down, face forward and absolutely no talking for the remainder of the trip. And I probably would have seized the phone and told the child he would get it back upon exiting the bus and I wouldn’t have thought twice about it.Sack up people!
The more comments I read on this incident, the more convinced I am that taking the video at face value, the bus monitor is incompetent. I am a very empathetic person but when it comes to individuals taking personal responsibility, I am rabid and unwavering. No excuse for the bus monitor’s behavior. No sympathy. I fear I am a dying breed but will continue my personal responsibility crusade until the day I die.
Deborah, since I have commented so much in this thread and since our respective “takes” from the video are polar opposites, I am compelled to suspect that you would be surprised at how nonetheless similar you and I are, in both our capacity for empathy and our expectation of personal responsibility. It is simply against my better judgment to take the video at face value to conclude that Karen Klein was proven incompetent in her job BEFORE the video incident.
For no particular reason than because of “brainstorming,” I am reminded of an incident where a long renowned college football coach, also in his 60s or possibly 70s (Woody Hayes), “lost it” near the end of a game his team was losing. Hayes literally attacked one of the opposing team’s players who happened to hit the ground near where he was standing. National TV captured the sight. He lost his job (and younger though I was at that time, and despite the respect I had for Hayes, I fully agreed that he had blundered his way out of his job, with that attack). I doubt whether Hayes’ competence was so in doubt before that incident, that anyone was saying he should not have been on the job for that game. I am still willing to believe that Karen Klein was a competent bus monitor, right up to the moments when her attackers made their video.
Why are you willing to swallow that she was competent when I am a former monito (8 years) and I am here to tell you that the video was a clear indication of how far she had let things slide over the course of a whole school year??? I knew RIGHT AWAY what had happened. No monitor I ever knew or worked with would ever had allowed a child to curse and especially not lay hands on them without saying something to them and handling it! Sje let this go until they felt comfortable doing this! I realize you were not a monitor, but I DID this job and I know! She lost control of them the first time they acted up and she sat on her uncaring keister and did nothing! To paraphrase the Beatles, the authority you make is the authority you take. She took none so she had none. I can think of a hundred scenarios in which this could have been much worse and she would have been totally at fault. She was an accident on it’s way to a place to happen, and a LIABILITY. To her company. You don’t cry and cringe and cower in your seat seat when people are taunting and poking you!!!!!!!!!! Go back and read all my posts. And really think about what I’m saying. Don’t drink that kool aid, or at least change the flavor. When I’m right I’m right and I BET in time this bs will turn around. And it will be seen for what it is. Guaranteed.
“Why are you willing to swallow that she was competent…”
Because I have seen “the best of them” (I mean humanity, not just bus monitors) freeze-up, zone-out, switch channels – whatever you want to call it – when least expected. Even allowing for the possibility that the attack would not have occurred without Klein letting things slide for a long time prior, that nevertheless becomes irrelevant when the actual “test” occurs. Have you ever been besieged like she was? In your bus monitor job, or anywhere else? Are you sure? It’s part of the mystery and wonder – and bafflement and frustration – of being human, to recognize how people simply are not predictable, and not controllable. And to recognize that therefore, situations can, do, and will arise in which no amount of training, personal development, planning and rehearsing, teamwork, and prior experience can guarantee the desired outcome, or even, an acceptable if less than desirable outcome. Ultimately, even competence has limited relevance. Expecting “competence of bus monitors” to be the only missing puzzle piece to solve this bus-behavior problem, and specifically this one we saw on video, is like constituting an army, and then expecting it to move something to somewhere – by pushing on a rope.
Eeyoure, sorry. We will have to agree to disagree. The only way I see that Ms. Klein could have found herself so incapacitated is either something atrocious had preceded the video or she was totally incapable of doing the job. Did she have a weapon pointed at her? Did she witness a murder or rape on the bus? She allowed the situation to evolve and did nothing before, during, or after. A woman who allows herself to be bullied by 12 year olds is in the wrong job! Yes, we saw only a 10 minute “snapshot” of her career. I have my own moments I am not particularly proud of but also have documented instances of extreme competence which colleagues would quickly jump in and reference to defend me. Until I see Ms. Klein’s former students and her employers singing her accolades, I remain unconvinced that she was ever effective in her job.
And thank you dkatt for your contributions to the conversation! You have restored my faith.
As of 6:15 p.m. on 6/25/12 the total money contributed totals $651,238.