Comment Of The Day: “The Unethical, Depressing, Bar Complaint Against Kellyanne Conway”

trump-as-hitler

This Comment of the Day by Isaac—not his first—again raises the issue that Ethics Alarms periodically faces in querulous e-mails from subscribers who announce their withdrawal by accusing the site of covering politics rather than ethics. As the facilitator/proprietor here, I struggle with this every day. Ethics Alarms, as the title suggests, conerns applied ethics, not Plato’s Cave. The mission is to assist the culture’s ongoing and never ending search for beneficial, rational and effective standards of right and wrong. This is best accomplished by monitoring and analyzing all corners of the culture and society, including its institutions. Government is both a reflection of the culture’s values and an enforcer of them; politics is the means by which a government’s values, priorities and methods are determined. It is literally impossible to examine the march of ethics without politics and political ethics, as well as the institutions that influence them, notably the news media, taking a central role. 

Here is Isaac’s Comment of the Day on the post “The Unethical, Depressing, Bar Complaint Against Kellyanne Conway”:

I stand by my theory that the Left is suffering from such serious cognitive dissonance right now that they are almost literally mass-hallucinating. They believe that Trump is lighting the Constitution on fire and dancing on it. If he isn’t, they will create their own reality in which he is.

Look at how angry they get whenever a media outlet portrays Trump as a human being. “They’re NORMALIZING his EVIL!” “Don’t they know he’s Hitler?”

The Left is acting like a Doomsday cult typically does, in the months after the predicted Doomsday fails to arrive. In those situations most cult members have invested so heavily in the cult-leader’s scam, that they’d rather go on following than just admit that they were taken for fools. And so the cult goes on, even as its predictions keep failing.

These people bet everything on Trump being an unelectable devil. Just watch that clip of Ann Coulter from 2 years ago on the Bill Maher show being laughed at by everyone, to her face, for declaring Trump the most likely to win. What do you do when you were so horribly, horribly wrong, and you spent months mocking, cursing, and shunning everyone who turned out to be right? You either humble yourself and be decent, or you double down. Human nature is to double down. In this case, that means the Left NEEDS Trump to be Hitler. They need to believe that his election was a “white-lash” even after the numbers come in to prove it wasn’t. They now need to believe not only that Trump is Hitler, but that millions of American voters are willing, aspiring Nazis who made the biggest mistake in all of history. If Trump isn’t Hitler, they will MAKE him Hitler. They are doing it for their own psychic well-being.

I didn’t think Trump would win either. I think it was a mistake to elect him. But I wasn’t so heavily invested in his personal failure. Frankly I see more upside to the current situation that a Hillary presidency, which would have just been 8 more years of a slow slide into oligarchy. If I had spent two years warning everyone that Trump’s election would bring about the immediate Apocalypse, I’d be tempted to root for him to fail now, too. Maybe if I were unscrupulous enough, I’d even try to sabotage him to protect my own ego, perhaps even at the expense of America. At least I’m trying to understand the impulses behind the current Left freakout.

83 Comments

Filed under "bias makes you stupid", Comment of the Day, Ethics Alarms Award Nominee, Government & Politics

83 responses to “Comment Of The Day: “The Unethical, Depressing, Bar Complaint Against Kellyanne Conway”

    • Though I suspect charles will be concerned that you are acting too much like a psychiatrist.

      • Actually, as I plan to discuss later today, Psychiatrists, like journalists, doctors, historians, scientists, professors, artists and lawyers, are acting like partisan hacks.

        • Other Bill

          Right. They’re telling us they’ve concluded Trump is nuts. In their unsolicited professional opinion, not that they’ve ever been in the same room with their accidental patient.

        • Jack Marshall wrote, “Actually, as I plan to discuss later today, Psychiatrists, like journalists, doctors, historians, scientists, professors, artists and lawyers, are acting like partisan hacks.”

          Both the the ignorant left base and the pompous left intellectuals are eating up the subversion propaganda from these unethical partisan hacks like it’s candy. When you spend as much time as these partisan hacks spouting and parroting the unethical subversion propaganda for the sole purpose of sedition (yes, that’s the only purpose these days) you eventually you start believing the crap you spew.

          Chris fell into this hack trap of parroting subversion propaganda yesterday when he said “I despise Conway and think she’s a pathological liar”. Chris chose to go silent when directly confronted about it.

          The pattern that a friend has helped me latch onto is that these partisan hacks know that they don’t need to, and will not, justify any of their subversion propaganda, the purpose is to spread the subversion propaganda as far and as fast as possible. The actions of the extreme political left has pretty much convinced me that they are likely heading for an insurrection, the only question becomes is how limited would an insurrection be.

          We really all need to start using the proper terminology to define what we are seeing and hearing from the extreme political left these days; extremists are using/parroting subversion and sedition to incite insurrection. Maybe such language will bring then a new self awareness of their actions.

          • dragin_dragon

            I agree with you whole-heartedly, of a civil war starts, the Left will start it. They have already shown a propensity to resort to suppression of rights and violence. I would, however, predict that it will be over in short order. The armed forces are, first sworn to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States” and, as a general rule, they take that oath seriously, and, second, they are ill-equipped to handle a back-lash from the remaining non-left population.

            • dragin_dragon wrote, “I would, however, predict that it will be over in short order”, “they are ill-equipped to handle a back-lash from the remaining non-left population.”

              With all due respect, you are forgetting history.

              The same kinds of things were said about the Continental Army and the Confederate Army; do you remember what the Russians said when they went into Afghanistan, and what about Vietnam. You never, EVER underestimate the capabilities or resolve of your “enemy” or the reaction of the public at large after real bullets start flying.

              • dragin_dragon

                Yeah, you’re right. In honesty, I was thinking, we got air craft, tanks and ships, they won’t even allow themselves to own guns. Even a guerilla war requires weapons, and they are busily trying to divest the country of them, except for the armed forces. I have to admit, they do make it very easy to underestimate them. Paranoid, I know, but I wonder if that might be their goal?

                • joed68

                  The practical considerations of waging war might be beyond the grasp of people who live in make-pretend land, though.

                  • dragin_dragon

                    Too true.

                    • Chris

                      I visit many left-wing blogs, most of my friends are leftists, and my Twitter feed is a leftist bubble aside from Cathy Young, Humble Talent and a few other conservatives.

                      Literally the only place I ever see this “There’s gonna be another civil war” talk is here, and it only comes from this site’s conservatives.

      • Isaac

        Thanks! And it’s just a theory that I read about somewhere and am curious about. So far it fits all of the data.

        It will be interesting down the road if the country improves in measurable ways (real unemployment, household income, etc.) to see the reaction. Or even if things more or less stay the same.

  1. E2 (nee Elizabeth I)

    Extremely articulate expression of what I’ve been thinking about the backlash — especially the media’s — about the election… and more about Hillary’s loss than Trump’s win, I think. It’s beginning to scare me, because strong emotion will trump rationality (no pun intended) almost every time.

  2. Other Bill

    I’m beginning to conclude that huge numbers of people were so totally invested in HRC being the first woman president, and the last baby boomer president (ever since the nomination was stolen from her in 2008), and bringing the long awaited Clinton Restoration (Don’t Stop Thinkin’ about Tomorrow) that they have literally become unhinged. It’s the only logical explanation I can come up with.

  3. Isaac,
    Really good comment; my only real quarrel would be that “Left freakout” has become a gross understatement.

    • Andrew Wakeling

      For those alarmed by talk of ‘so called judges’, the NYT being an enemy of the people’, collusion with Russian agencies, improper pressuring the FBI, and refusal to disclose tax returns, and much else; merely freaking out must seem quite irresponsibly inadequate.

      • Wow, THAT was a dog’s breakfast!

        “so called judges”= rudeness, nothing more
        ” the NYT being an enemy of the people”=As I explained: biased, agenda driven and dishonest journalism is a threat to democracy, and “enemy of the people” is not a wholly unfair verdict.
        “collusion with Russian agencies”= Fake news, circulated by the enemies of the public
        “improper pressuring the FBI”= innuendo
        “and refusal to disclose tax returns”= An oldie but a goodie, about on par with Obama not releasing his academic records. The only ones who care are those looking for things to smear him with. That’s supposed to stop after the election.

        • Chris

          “So-called judges” is deligitimizing a branch of government. You condemn liberals calling Trump an “illegitimate president;” there is no difference between that and “so-called judges,” except that you have lower expectations for Trump than you have for liberal activists.

          “Enemy of the people” is wholly unfair. This is how criminals and terrorists are described.

          The Russian connections aren’t “fake news,” and calling it that is an abuse of the term.

          No, not releasing tax returns is not the same as not releasing academic records. There is a long precedent of the former, and it is much more relevant than the latter, since the president sets tax policy. It is even more relevant to this president, who ran on his business experience.

          • Chris you’re so predictable as a lefty apologist..

            Chris wrote “”So-called judges” is deligitimizing a branch of government. “

            This little apologists argument sounds so reasonable on its face and then you dig into it and figure out that it just nonsense hyperbole. Spouting a rude comment like calling a judge a “so-called judge” is nothing but an insult and does absolutely nothing to diminish or destroy the legitimacy, prestige, or authority of the judge; what it does do is show the foolishness of the person spouting the insult.

            Chris wrote “You condemn liberals calling Trump an “illegitimate president;” there is no difference between that and “so-called judges,””

            Here’s where Chris went completely off the deep end. No difference between “so-called judge” and “illegitimate President”; really? Are you really that completely ignorant? The phrase “so-called judge” is used to express one’s view that a name or term is inappropriate, it’s an intentional insult to the person holding the title; where the phrase “illegitimate president” is literally stating that the President is not authorized by law to be President, which is an outright LIE!

            Chris wrote “…you have lower expectations for Trump than you have for liberal activists.”

            That may be true, but you have no evidence to support the claim and it’s completely irrelevant to the conversation. I think you went off the rails here.

            Chris wrote, ““Enemy of the people” is wholly unfair. This is how criminals and terrorists are described.”

            No way I’m allowing you to get away with that view through your industrial-strength weapons-grade thickened ideological blinders. The phrase implies that the “enemies” in question are acting against society as a whole. I think what you might be talking about is an “enemy of the state” or just a plain criminal; I would have thought that a reasonably intelligent person would know the difference, but when you go into full apologist mode, you flush your intelligence and allow your bias to make you look stupid.

            Chris wrote, “The Russian connections aren’t “fake news,” and calling it that is an abuse of the term.”

            That Mr. Chris is a dishonest misrepresentation. Knowing the alternate reality that your apologists mind resides, I think you just intentionally lied. If you don’t understand that there is a difference between your phrase “Russian connections” and their phrase “collusion with Russian agencies” then your bias has made you so utterly stupid that you’re not fixable.

            Chris said, “No, not releasing tax returns is not the same as not releasing academic records. There is a long precedent of the former, and it is much more relevant than the latter, since the president sets tax policy. It is even more relevant to this president, who ran on his business experience.”

            Chris, the fact is that we all know that neither releasing tax returns or releasing academic records is required of any candidate, and it’s certainly no more relevant with Trump today just because of who Trump is than it has been for any other candidate prior to Trump – your claim is partisan bull shit. This precedent you speak of is not law and the implication that it’s somehow required for Trump based on precedent only exists in the minds of those that “are those looking for things to smear him with”. Jack was spot on and you are scraping the gutter with your nonsense.

            Personally I’m getting really tired of your apologist bull shit, why don’t you try something else for a while and give us all a break from your nonsense.

            • Chris

              I’m not about to bother separating the legitimate points in there from the needlessly hostile personal attacks. Change your tone, or I’m going to have to decide to start ignoring your posts completely, Zoltar.

              • Chris wrote, “I’m not about to bother separating the legitimate points in there from the needlessly hostile personal attacks. Change your tone, or I’m going to have to decide to start ignoring your posts completely, Zoltar”

                If you think there are legitimate points in there then quote them se we know what your talking about and discuss them, the rest is annoying to you, fine I get that, so blow off the rest and pick your battles; but seriously Chris, you really need to get over yourself.

                Okay Chris, discuss what you think are legitimate points or don’t, it’s your choice now.

                • Chris

                  Thanks for moderating your tone, Zoltar.

                  I don’t agree that there is a significant difference between “so-called judge” and “illegitimate president.” If Rep. Lewis and others in the Resistance were calling Trump a “so-called president,” would that really make any difference to Jack? I doubt it, but only he can answer.

                  I agree the term “illegitimate president” is stupid. Trump is a legitimate president. Just because he is a terrible one doesn’t make him illegitimate.

                  I think when some people use “illegitimate president,” they are using hyperbole, not speaking literally. Why is it that Trump gets the benefit of the doubt, and we are so often told he doesn’t mean anything “literally,” but everyone else is taken literally? That’s what I mean by a lower standard.

                  If you don’t understand that there is a difference between your phrase “Russian connections” and their phrase “collusion with Russian agencies” then your bias has made you so utterly stupid that you’re not fixable.

                  There is a difference, but not a material one in this argument. The “collusion” is not being reported as fact, but the accusations, intelligence reports and other circumstantial evidence certainly are being reported, as they should be. When the press reports on a dossier compiled by an MI-6 officer who we’ve relied on for intelligence in the past, that it’s “fake news,” that’s just “news.” Fake news would be reporting the allegations as truth, but no mainstream news source that I’m aware of has done so. They reported the information they had, and it was in the public interest. Would you rather not know such a dossier existed? Why not?

                  We are not going to agree about the “enemy of the people” language or the tax returns issue.

                  • Chris wrote, “I don’t agree that there is a significant difference between “so-called judge” and “illegitimate president.” If Rep. Lewis and others in the Resistance were calling Trump a “so-called president,” would that really make any difference to Jack? I doubt it, but only he can answer.”

                    Jack,
                    Since I’ve already addressed the differences in my comment above I think you should be the one to address this since it was kind of directed at you.

                  • Chris wrote, “I think when some people use “illegitimate president,” they are using hyperbole, not speaking literally.”

                    More apologist mode assumptions

                    Chris wrote, “Why is it that Trump gets the benefit of the doubt, and we are so often told he doesn’t mean anything “literally,” but everyone else is taken literally?”

                    Hole on just a damn minute; Trump get’s the benefit of the doubt? Seriously Chris, what the fuck are you talking about? Nothing Trump does or says get’s the benefit of the doubt, nothing!

                    Chris wrote, “The “collusion” is not being reported as fact”

                    As a friend of mine always says, all I have to do is find one example to prove a statement like that one false; here is that one thing. Newsweek published this title to an article on 2/17/17:

                    THE RUSSIAN PLOT: HOW PUTIN AND TRUMP COLLUDED

                    Words have meaning. That states in large bold letters that there was a Russian plot, there was collision, the collusion/plot was between Trump and Putin, and here is how they did it; they presented that title as FACT; and those suffering from Trump derangement syndrome and using Progressive Magical Thinking latch on to a title like that and run with it without even one moment of critical thinking, except the their usual version of Liberal Critical Thinking which I’ve shared that definition with you before.

                    A point of logic that has so obviously blown straight over your head is that there has to be a connection for collusion to exist, but correlation does not equal causation, and just because there is a connection does not mean that there was collusion. If you don’t know what connection and collusion mean then look them up.

              • Chris,
                Here’s how to physically separate things that drove you into your Safe Haven.

                ———————————————-

                Chris wrote “”So-called judges” is deligitimizing a branch of government. “

                Spouting a rude comment like calling a judge a “so-called judge” is nothing but an insult and does absolutely nothing to diminish or destroy the legitimacy, prestige, or authority of the judge; what it does do is show the foolishness of the person spouting the insult.

                Chris wrote “You condemn liberals calling Trump an “illegitimate president;” there is no difference between that and “so-called judges,””

                No difference between “so-called judge” and “illegitimate President”; really? The phrase “so-called judge” is used to express one’s view that a name or term is inappropriate, it’s an intentional insult to the person holding the title; where the phrase “illegitimate president” is literally stating that the President is not authorized by law to be President, which is an outright LIE!

                Chris wrote “…you have lower expectations for Trump than you have for liberal activists.”

                That may be true, but you have no evidence to support the claim and it’s completely irrelevant to the conversation.

                Chris wrote, ““Enemy of the people” is wholly unfair. This is how criminals and terrorists are described.”

                The phrase implies that the “enemies” in question are acting against society as a whole. I think what you might be talking about is an “enemy of the state” or just a plain criminal.

                Chris wrote, “The Russian connections aren’t “fake news,” and calling it that is an abuse of the term.”

                That Mr. Chris is a dishonest misrepresentation. I think you just intentionally lied. If you don’t understand that there is a difference between your phrase “Russian connections” and their phrase “collusion with Russian agencies” then your bias has made you stupid. (Sorry Chris, there is no other way to put it. Deal with it.)

                Chris said, “No, not releasing tax returns is not the same as not releasing academic records. There is a long precedent of the former, and it is much more relevant than the latter, since the president sets tax policy. It is even more relevant to this president, who ran on his business experience.”

                Chris, the fact is that we all know that neither releasing tax returns or releasing academic records is required of any candidate, and it’s certainly no more relevant with Trump today just because of who Trump is than it has been for any other candidate prior to Trump – your claim is partisan false. This precedent you speak of is not law and the implication that it’s somehow required for Trump based on precedent only exists in the minds of those that “are those looking for things to smear him with”. Jack was spot on and you are scraping the gutter with your nonsense.

                ———————————————-

                There you go, now you can discuss the points.

  4. Glenn Logan

    I think this is pretty much right, and one has to wonder what the effect will be two, or three years down the road, of this “double-down.” Will it ultimately prevail by forcing a constitutional crisis either by electing a Democratic majority in congress leading to an impeachment, or causing the Republicans in Congress to abandon Trump, or will it cause the Democrats to collapse even further, producing a larger margin for the Republicans?

    Then, there’s the third option — all sound and fury, signifying nothing substantive. The status quo changes little despite a lot of hand-wringing and innumerable apocalyptic screeds from the media enablers of the Left.

    I guess a lot depends upon how much of a catastrophe the Trump administration actually is (or the extent to which it is successfully portrayed to the public as a catastrophe). But one thing is fairly certain — the current outrage cannot be sustained much longer. Already, it is showing signs of returning to something more closely resembling normal than the post-election freak-out.

    No doubt the more radical Leftists will try to sustain the outrage for a full two years at least, but I have my doubts they’ll be able to. People get tired of town hall protest viral videos pretty quickly. What’s really going to be interesting is what happens when a genuine crisis comes along, and how Trump handles it — a Hurricane Katrina, a mass shooting, a terrorist attack, an earthquake, a conflict with another country, a stock market crash — that’s where the rubber will meet the road, and where the groundwork being laid by the left will either bear fruit, or lead to further retrenchment.

    It will also be interesting to see to what extent the left-leaning permanent bureaucracy in Washington, sometimes referred to as the “deep state,” will be able to sabotage the administration. Even more interesting will be to see Trump’s reaction — it’s hard to imagine him putting up with it much longer, and his reaction is likely to be drastic.

  5. joed68

    “At least I’m trying to understand the impulses behind the current Left freakout.”
    No, I think you pretty much nailed it. The only way to understand abnormal behavior is through the lens of abnormal psychology. I am, of course, referring only to those on the left who seem to have made up their minds that they’re going to continue acting out in this manner to the bitter end.

    Oh by the way; thanks for setting the COTD bar even higher, bud. 🙂

    • dragin_dragon

      I gotta tell you, I am pretty flabbergasted that the majority of the members of my old profession are falling into the liberal trap. One of our basic tenets years ago was that each individual should be responsible for his/her own behavior. That has, apparently, been flushed down the toilet, along with such constructs as common sense, in favor of “feel good” theories. (Retired psychologist, shaking head sadly).

      • joed68

        That’s what I don’t understand. How can personal responsibility and accountability not be an essential cornerstone of healing? What happens to a sense of agency without that?

  6. Carcarwhite

    So profound!!!! The fragile ego must defend itself or it ceases to exist.

    Trump haters pride themselves on being wise, informed, knowledgeable, educated, and far brighter than the deplorable son the right.

    They believe they are right soooooooo much they must not find one good thing about him. They must SEE WHAT THEY BELIEVE, Thayer can’t see anything else because when they do, even for a moment, it opens their mind up to things which only , “those deplorable kind of people” believe! (Even if they are true) This makes them afraid because it’s a loss of identity and that is very frightening for us all, depending on where our ego gets its identity.

    So it’s not about truth anymore but identity.

    People who are more secure and don’t identify themselves this way (in any group) can be more open. Public people like oprah who just did a story in her magazine with women from the left and right meeting and listening to each other. There are same voices on the left and right. Sadly the ones we hear most are very identified by their group-think. Even many on the right do this.

    Our hope is we listen more and dialogue better, more like this blog’s comments.

    My friends on the left are struggling.

  7. The Progressive Inquisition is well begun. All heretical behavior of progressives must be purged not simply for the person being chastised but so that the rest will be silenced. It goes without saying that non-progressives who commit thought crimes will be treated even worse.

  8. Andrew Wakeling

    So what is the responsible way for a citizen to react, when one sees vital elements under threat? It is of course a personal issue to decide what matters. But it should not be an option to not care. This blog has been full of criticism of the critics, but fairly light on the underlying issues stirring dissent. The country is divided. Jack Turns his fire on the “progressives, Democrats and the news media (who) are stoking the engine” pulling us to the ‘post election ethics train wreck’ (15 January). Agreed, even the angriest ‘Kaboom’ protesters need to try to be constructive. But there is a far higher ethical duty on President Trump and Stephen Bannon to strive for consensus and unity. And if there is to be any ‘balance’ they need to be called out for not doing so. Sheltering them behind some version the ‘Julie Principle’ should be unacceptable.

    • If that’s your point, you picked a bad place for it. These critics—the law professors—are misusing the ethics complaint system, and have allowed politics to pollute their own ethics.

      This is an ethics site: EA doesn’t generally take policy positions unless they are per se unethical (like open borders) or the debate intentionally ducks the ethics issues involved (as with abortion). “Vital elements are not under attack. Anti-democratic forces are falsely misrepresenting them as such—it is the “resistors” who are threatening core principles, not by their policy preferences, but by their methods of seeking them: fearmongering, censorship, violence, defiance of law, manipulation of news, attacks on institutions. Whichever “side” behaves like that will find EA on its back.

      Leaders have no obligation to seek “consensus,” especially when the opposition refuses to accept a leader’s legitimacy. Partisans only make that plea when they are out of power. Lincoln didn’t seek consensus. Nor TR, Wilson, FDR, Reagan…no effective political leader in challenging times seeks consensus, especially when the opposition is determined to alienate all but the most fanatic. Leaders create majorities, not consensus, and they do it by being successful, measured, in this country, by strength, peace, enterprise, liberty, personal freedom, opportunity, safety, opportunity, equality, autonomy, and respect for American ideals, incentive to take risks, plus self-esteem and pride.

      Not giving an elected leader even a chance to explore his way of achieving those things creates a growing consensus that the leader’s opposition are bullies, totalitarians and children.

    • Isaac

      My two cents…I don’t think anything vital is under threat. Trump is one of a long line of politicians whom I would never want to hang out with, both foreign and domestic. Japan has a long history of electing kooky celebrities to public office. Multiple American presidents were blowhards, liars, inarticulate, or unhinged. We’ve had drunks in the White House and a crackhead DC mayor who could do literally anything and keep getting re-elected. And life goes on.

  9. Isaac

    As a thank-you to Jack for this honor, I would like to share with you all the actual magical spell that thousands of real people cast yesterday in order to “bind” Donald Trump. A guy named Michael Hughes says that it’s “the kind of magic that WORKS” because it’s “based on the template that underlies every magical system.” And he’s a professional writer, speaker, and paranormal expert, so you KNOW it’s legit.

    This is a completely healthy, normal thing that people do, by the way, when they don’t agree with the President. I recommend that you join in and practice this ritual at every crescent moon until Trump keels over dead! You will definitely not be wasting your time and money (and life):

    —–A Spell to Bind Donald Trump and All Those Who Abet Him (version 2.0)—–
    To be performed at midnight on every waning crescent moon until he is removed from office. The first ritual takes place Friday evening, February 24th, at the stroke of midnight. This binding spell is open source, and may be modified to fit your preferred spiritual practice or magical system — the critical elements are the simultaneity of the working (midnight, EST—DC, Mar-a-Lago, and Trump Tower NYC time) and the mass energy of participants.
    See below for the upcoming dates. Some lodges/covens are doing a variation of this as a group working, while a number of solitary practitioners are planning to connect and livestream via Facebook, Twitter, and other social media.

    Components:
    -Unflattering photo of Trump (small); see below for one you can print
    -Tower tarot card (from any deck)
    -Tiny stub of an orange candle (cheap via Amazon)
    -Pin or small nail (to inscribe candle)
    -White candle (any size), representing the element of Fire
    -Small bowl of water, representing elemental Water
    -Small bowl of salt, representing elemental Earth
    -Feather (any), representing the element of Air
    -Matches or lighter
    -Ashtray or dish of sand

    Optional:
    -Piece of pyrite (fool’s gold)
    -Sulfur
    -Black thread (for traditional binding variant)
    -Baby carrot (as substitute for orange candle stub)

    Preparation:
    -Write “Donald J. Trump” on the orange candle stub with a pin or nail
    -Arrange other items in a pleasing circle in front of you
    -Lean the Tower card against something so that it’s standing up (vertically)
    -Say a prayer for protection and invoke blessing from your preferred spirit or deity. Experienced magicians may perform an appropriate banishing ritual.

    RITUAL
    (v. 2.2)
    (Light white candle)
    Hear me, oh spirits
    Of Water, Earth, Fire, and Air
    Heavenly hosts
    Demons of the infernal realms
    And spirits of the ancestors
    (Light inscribed orange candle stub)
    I call upon you
    To bind
    Donald J. Trump
    So that his malignant works may fail utterly
    That he may do no harm
    To any human soul
    Nor any tree
    Animal
    Rock
    Stream
    or Sea
    Bind him so that he shall not break our polity
    Usurp our liberty
    Or fill our minds with hate, confusion, fear, or despair
    And bind, too,
    All those who enable his wickedness
    And those whose mouths speak his poisonous lies
    I beseech thee, spirits, bind all of them
    As with chains of iron
    Bind their malicious tongues
    Strike down their towers of vanity
    (Invert Tower tarot card)
    I beseech thee in my name
    (Say your full name)
    In the name of all who walk
    Crawl, swim, or fly
    Of all the trees, the forests,
    Streams, deserts,
    Rivers and seas
    In the name of Justice
    And Liberty
    And Love
    And Equality
    And Peace
    Bind them in chains
    Bind their tongues
    Bind their works
    Bind their wickedness
    (Light the small photo of Trump from the flame of the orange candle stub and hold carefully above the ashtray)
    (Speak the following loudly and with increasing passion as the photo burns to ashes)
    So mote it be!
    So mote it be!
    So mote it be!
    (Blow out orange candle, visualizing Trump blowing apart into dust or ash*)
    (Pinch or snuff out the white candle, ending the ritual)

    Grounding and Disposal
    Afterward, ground yourself by having a good, hearty laugh, jumping up and down, clapping your hands, stomping your feet, and having a bite to eat. Grounding is very important—don’t neglect it. And remember—he hates people laughing at him.
    Finally, bury the orange candle stub or discard it at a crossroads or in running water.

    VARIANTS
    Alternate Closing: After you’ve visualized Trump’s energy dissipating, gaze at the white candle flame for a few moments, close your eyes, and imagine a bright light emerging from the darkness and gradually being revealed as the flaming torch of the Statue of Liberty. The light from the torch then brightens intensely, expanding into infinity and burning away all darkness. After a few moments, open your eyes, ground yourself, and pinch or snuff out the white candle, closing the ritual. You can also leave it burning until it is fully extinguished.
    Traditional Binding Variant: This variant was contributed by a rootworker, and incorporates a more traditional form of binding magic. In place of burning the photo, the magician ties the photo to the orange candle with black thread. As you are wrapping the thread around the photo and candle, say “I bind you” three times. You may also tie knots in the thread. Then the whole package is buried or, as the contributor suggested, “Leave it outside a Trump hotel.”
    The Use-His-Pet-Phrase-Against-Him Variant: In place of “So mote it be,” instead say, “You’re fired!” with increasing vehemence. This should be particularly beautiful as the flames consume his image.
    Baby Carrot Substitution: For those who can’t acquire an orange candle stub, Frater SHUF suggests using a baby carrot (and lighting the photo from the white candle).
    Alternate Closing for Group Rituals: Many group rituals are done in a call-and-response style. The leader may end with:
    “Our ritual has ended, brothers and sisters. May we go in peace, harming none, and continue our magical resistance under each waning crescent moon until Donald J. Trump is driven from office.”
    To witch the participants reply (with emotion): “So mote it be!”
    Waning Crescent Moon Ritual Dates:
    February 24th (Midnight, Friday evening into Saturday morning); March 26th; April 24th; May 23rd; June 21st (especially important as it is the summer solstice); July 21st; August 19th; etc.

    • joed68

      Is this a joke?

      • fattymoon

        Not a joke, joe. I’ve dabbled here and there and my success rate has been around 60 percent. Most impressive feat was getting a new roof paid for by insurance after inspector initially rejected my claim. I saved almost eleven thousand dollars.

        I called for magic against Trumpy prior to this announcement, so, apparently, a bunch of us were thinking along the same lines. I’m not fond of the term “wtich”… I much prefer “Wiccan.”

        • Not a joke, as it is one more demonstration of panic, hysteria and derangement. Sticking pins into a Trump doll makes exactly as much sense, and will have exactly as much effect, as calling for the use of the 25th Amendment, and taking one seriously is as sad and silly as the other.

          • fattymoon

            Don’t agree. (Sticking pins is a very old cliche and not useful in this discussion.) I’m thinking this movement springs from Mother Nature herself. I don’t presume that statement will make sense to many of you, and, in fact, will inspire some to heap derision upon my head. That’s ok, though. It is what it is.

            • Waaaay beneath you.

              1. “It is what it is.” is a ratioanlization, meaning essentially, “I got nothing.” In fact, it reminds me of a related missing rationalization: “You can’t understand.”

              2. No, the pins and doll description perfectly frames the silliness of using curses and magic when logic and reason fail.

              • fattymoon

                It is what it is is simply my way of saying I don’t give a hoot what you or others here may think of me regarding this particular issue.

                And, NO SIR, pins and dolls DO NOT frame the Wiccan desire to bind Trump and company from doing harm. No pins or dolls involved (except the pin used to inscribe the candle). No curses either.

                Let me guess, Jack. You don’t believe in magic… 😉 You come down on the side logic and reason. Ok, that’s your opinion, but such opinion does nothing to negate the magic and magical tools. (Magic is magic because no one really understands how it works. And, although magic is never 100 percent successful, it does work quite often for its millions of practioners. There must be some “logical” reason why people continue to do this stuff.

                • No need to be snotty. I don’t care that you don’t care. Friends don’t let friends believe in Dr. Strange. The belief in magic isn’t opinion, any more than the belief in the Easter Bunny, leprechauns,rabbits feet, curses, Zombies, ghosts, faith healing, Yuri Geller, spiritualism and genies is opinion. It’s superstition and delusion, and a close cousin of believing that the Holocaust didn’t exist and that Shakespeare was an alien.

                  Believing in logic, facts, history and science is not “opinion.” It’s called reality. You know, Scientific American still has its prize, now worth over a million bucks, for anyone who can prove supernatural powers of any kind. It’s almost 100 years old, and nobody has won, it and almost nobody tries any more, because every applicant has ended up exposed as a fraud. That’s pretty convincing, or should be.

                  • fattymoon

                    Jack, I wasn’t being snottiy. Sorry it came across that way.

                    Ok, you don’t believe in magic. Question… would you refuse to buy a house a murderer once lived in?

                    Another question… do symbols have power? Think about this for a minute.

                    I won’t argue your contention about reality. I disagree, that’s all. What I will do is share the particular magic I used to score a new roof. (Here’s what happened… the insurance inspector climbs down from the roof and tells me she’s sorry but the insurance company will not cover the hail damage. Then, seconds later, she says she’s going up for another look. A few minutes later she’s authorizing over ten grand for a new roof. I practiced the magic (below) two days prior to the inspection.

                    The Sphere of All Possibilities – http://tomkenyon.com/the-sphere-of-all-possibilities

                    OK, now it’s in your ball park, Jack. You can read it and not do the work… just laught it off. You can read it and attempt the work, which I recommend. Of course your readers here are welcomed to do the same. I’ll be interested to here all feedback, positive and negative.

                  • Chris

                    I’m not sure why fattymoon’s form of prayer should be considered any more irrational than anyone else’s.

            • Isaac

              For the record I was being sarcastic. Then fattymoon came and made it awkward.

              (Also for the record, New Age and witchcraft movements are a modern invention and there is nothing ancient about them.)

              • fattymoon

                No, Isaac. They are not a modern invention.
                “As a form of Western esotericism, the New Age drew heavily upon a number of older esoteric traditions, in particular those that emerged from the occultist current that developed in the eighteenth century. Such prominent occult influences include the work of Emanuel Swedenborg and Franz Mesmer, as well as the ideas of Spiritualism, New Thought, and Theosophy.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Age

                “The word ‘Witchcraft’ has been derived from the word ‘Wicca’ which means ‘the wise one’. Witchcraft has been seen as a magical phenomenon, a pagan worship or religion, sorcery, and others, at different periods in Witchcraft History.
                The earliest records of the concept and practice of witchcraft can be traced to the early days of humankind when witchcraft was seen as magical a phenomenon that was invoked for magical rites which ensured good luck, protection against diseases, and other reasons.” http://www.witchcraft.com.au/witchcraft-history.html

                BTW, Issac, Jack, and all of you, I’ve been nourishing a new thought based on an incident which occurred Jan. 7. (This is closely related to much of what we think of as magical phenomena.) If you care to read it, please do. I think I make it quite clear what that new thought is. Hell, the title pretty much says it all.
                The Mind Obeys the Brain, Oh Horror! https://medium.com/poets-unlimited/the-mind-obeys-the-brain-oh-horror-1e06a25b7db#.3px79ibry

                • E2 (nee Elizabeth I)

                  So wicca/witchcraft is an ancient belief system. Then again, for eons humans believed the world was flat. Ancient doesn’t make it wise. Or correct. Or real.

                  • fattymoon

                    Of course ancient doesn’t make it wise. Or correct. Or real. Except… “In the province of the mind, what is believed to be true is true, or becomes true within certain limits to be learned by experience and experiment. These limits are further beliefs to be transcended. In the province of the mind. There are no limits.” John Lilly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Lilly

                    • E2 (nee Elizabeth I)

                      Agree to the extent of discussion of the power of the mind. But does this not apply primarily to one’s own mind? Do you really think that the power of one mind — or a collective one — can have an impact on an individual who is not open to this, or able to “get” this power? Isn’t it pretty proven that Santaria and other West Indian belief systems only work on or with those who believe in them? And do you see Trump as open to any Wicca power of the mind stuff? Wishful thinking.. It may have worked on Carter, if tried, but it won’t work on the likes of Trump.

                    • joed68

                      Oh wow! The scientist! I read that book waaay back when I was doing my undergrad. I left an impression, so me and another chem major friend of mine decided to replicate his experiments, even going so far as to build our own sensory deprivation tank.

              • THIS IS BEING TYPED BY JACK’S SON. SHORTLY AFTER RESPONDING TO FATTYMOON, DAD TURNED INTO A NEWT. WE’RE HOPING FOR THE BEST.

                GRANT VIKTOR MARSHALL

                • E2 (nee Elizabeth I)

                  Oh no, Master Marshall! But do not despair: PG Wodehouse wrote of a Bertie Wooster friend who had a special affinity with newts. You might look that up… All is not lost.

                • fattymoon

                  Yes, E2, it does apply. Our world view is being exploded by scientists in several areas. Quantum physics, of course. Multi/metaverses. String theory. We’re on the cusp of great discoveries, one of them being how mind can influence objecs, living things, and even events past and future. (See my post, above, concerning my roof).

                  I won’t ask you to trust me, or believe in, any of what I say. You have to do the heavy work yourself. Only you can decide if it’s real FOR YOU as well as having an observable effect on your chosen target.

                • fattymoon

                  Yep, that’s the guy. Out of the box scientist. Center of the Cyclone. Isolation tank. Innerspace. Milestone.

                  • joed68

                    Yep. Vitamin K and the Tank. Good times!

                  • E2 (nee Elizabeth I)

                    Dear Fattymoon:

                    My apologies for a pretty disrespectful exchange. But in spite of the fact that I believe in science, and that to me magic remains an illusion until or unless it is proved otherwise, I would like you to know the following.

                    1. I do believe, firmly, that there is life on other planets, though we likely will not meet it in our earth-bound lifetimes. This means to me that sentience takes many forms, and that we are only on the farthest edges of understanding this.

                    2. I also believe – because I have seen it – that the human mind can have significant effect on the biological workings of the human body.

                    3. I believe that the human “story” that we, as the top of the food chain, are the only sentient beings on earth is just a myth that we really don’t want to explore, because of the universal behavioral change it would create.

                    4. I believe that all science (if not politically motivated) is just now edging into arenas that are truly beyond our understanding. It is both exciting and frightening. Dimensions beyond the three that we know and can see and understand? Very scary, especially for the totally ‘rational’ folk like me.

                    5. And just FYI, I won’t go near a Ouija Board because… been there, done that, and don’t want to go there again.

                    All that said, I still believe as noted above that magic is illusion unless and until proved otherwise. So right now I just can’t believe that a bunch of wiccans can either affect Trump’s behavior or thought processes. Neither can it bring him down.

                    Looking forward to talking with you further.

                    • fattymoon

                      I agree with everything you said, E2. Yes, everything. But, (again), there’s this… the Many-worlds interpretation… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation

                      “Many-worlds implies that all possible alternate histories and futures are real, each representing an actual “world” (or “universe”). In layman’s terms, the hypothesis states there is a very large—perhaps infinite[2]—number of universes, and everything that could possibly have happened in our past, but did not, has occurred in the past of some other universe or universes.”

                      Blows my mind. I feel like I’m in the hall of mirrors.

                      Oh, speaking of mirrors, I made a very effective black mirror some years ago. Amazing some of the stuff that comes through. Very important, however, to ask for protection before proceeding. If you’re interested, Elizabeth, you can find instructions on how to make a black mirror on the net.

                      Better still, if you want to explore consciousness, I highly recommend you forego the black mirror and purchase (or make) a pendulum. This guide will get you started. Once you begin, your world view will change, I promise. Here’s the guide (a classic) – https://lettertorobin.wordpress.com/

              • To be clear, I’m not going down the theological rat hole, but as it is, if you really want to push it, the only real conclusions you can reach is there is One God that drives everything or there is no God at all. A religios world view projecting multiple competing spirits without a single All Powerful spirit just doesn’t cut it (if you want to go down that rat hole).

                I don’t.

        • A success rate of 60% is statistically a dead heat. In other words it “works” half the time and it doesn’t “work” half the time.

          That sounds about right.

          • Especially when you allow for confirmation bias. That would be worth about 10% swing.

            • fattymoon

              Confirmation bias… yes. Interestingly, confirmation bias is applicable to most everything I can think of. Example, Moonlight deserved the Best Picture Oscar.

          • fattymoon

            Was never that good in math, tex, so I don’t understand how 60% is a statistical dead heat. Why not 50%?

            • Try flipping a coin 40 times. You KNOW it should be 20 heads and 20 tails. But it won’t be. You won’t push a pure 50% split until you flip it thousands *upon* thousands of times. But with a small sample size your “ought to be 50-50” will end up being something like anywhere from 50-50 to 65-35.

              So yes, *statistically* speaking, in a small sample, size 60% is a dead heat when you’ve got 2 possibilities.

    • I’m positive that people sometimes look at what I write, their eyebrows curl up, they get a questioning look on their face and know they just fallen through the looking glass into the absurd, well that’s just what happened to me when I read this little sub thread this morning.

      fattymoon,
      Everything each of us writes gives a little insight into the person on the other end of the keyboard; well fattymoon, you have given us a new understanding into some things that make you who you are. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not necessarily a bad thing for us to understand what drives people we converse with, but since everything we do and say has consequences this too will affect perceptions.

      • fattymoon

        Zoltar, as I wrote elsewhere elsetime…

        Alone, with myself…
        how can this be… I… alone…?
        for we are many!

        When I read you, or anyone here, I know I’m getting a one dimensional view. This is one of the negatives of online communication.

        Here’s another piece of me in an attempt to expand your perception of me.

        At my wife’s insistence this morning, I set out two glue traps to catch the mouse that had been gnawing at the adobe wall next to our bedroom. *I did not want to do this, but, hell, what could I do? The gnawing would wake my wife and so she insisted I take action.

        A couple hours later both our dogs began barking and scratching at the front door to the porch where I’l placed the traps. So, I knew. I dreaded going out there. A little mouse had one foot firmly glued to the trap. I took the trap out back, heart racing. I grabbed a hammer, then put it down and instead pulled on my heavy work shoes, intending to crush it. I wanted it to be over as quickly as possible, for me and for the mouse.

        I won’t get in to how the mouse looked at me, shivering. I realized I couldn’t do this, just couldn’t, so I quickly pulled the foot free and the mouse took off running into the trees.

        My wife didn’t say anything when I returned so I assume she thought I’d killed it. I kept silent.

        An hour later the dogs repeated their barking and scratching at the door.

        There, on the second trap I’d laid was a mouse, and he was quite firmly attached to the trap. Whole body attached.

        Could this be the same mouse I’d released? Or was it another mouse. We’d been thinking there was only a single mouse. So I looked picked up the trap and looked at the mouse, but I couldn’t ascertain if it was the same mouse or a different one.

        I took the trap to the back side of the house again. Grabbed the hammer. Was abpout to smash his head in but stopped. With my gloved hand, I tried to free the mouse. No go. I was hurting him, and he tried to bite me due to the pain I was causing him.

        I place the trap on the ground, picked up the hammer and smashed his head several times until it was bone, blood, and pulp. I think I was crying, not sure. I kept blubbering, “forgive me, forgive me…” over and over.

        (Stella was in the shower when this happened and so does not know of the second mouse.)

        About two hours ago, my back began hurting, sharp pains in the middle of my back. Caused by my emotional state? I’m thinking yes. Prelude to a heart attack? Again, possibly yes. Another possibility… the teratoma tumor in my chest cavity may have started putting pressure on a nerve. The doctor who discovered the tumor warned me the tumor, if allowed to grow, would eventually put pressure on my heart of maybe another organ.

        Twenty minues ago I dropped off my wife at school. I need the car today so I can take our Westie for a 9 a.m. grooming appointment. (It’s now 8:16.)

        I told my wife I love her as she exited the car. I don’t normally do that. But, just in case I don’t make it through the day. Ya never know, ya know?

        Not going to proofread the above. I’m signing off so I can grab a quick breakfast before heading to the dog groomer.

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