I had momentarily forgotten that the blog hits its non-holiday traffic nadir during the so-called “dog days of summer,” which officially occur between July 3 and August 11 every year. I am optimistic that the many looming issues out there along with EA’s loyal and alert commentariat can fight the tide a bit.
We shall see…
Ethics Alarms 
An excellent essay desperately needed by Americans with a lack of historical perspective and those unreconstructed hippies of the ’60s who still worship at the altar of the Kennedys.
https://www.joshbarro.com/p/the-kennedys-were-always-bad
Well, hippies wouldn’t be able to tell, because as we all know, punks are good people pretending to be bad, and hippies are bad people pretending to be good.
Anthony Dominick Benedetto (August 3, 1926 – July 21, 2023)
Am I imagining things.
After Trump left office, media consistently referred to him as “ex-president”.
My memory recalls previous presidents being referred to as “president” or “former president”.
Just the other day I noticed that CNN ran some piece of writing referring to Trump as “former president”.
Wishful thinking.
I occasionally come across poorly written and thought out entertainment lists. And I occasionally am foolish enough to read them as though my life will be edified in some way. Of those lists, there is the perennial “let’s make fun of Americans” article. This particular version – the “American Tourists” version – is always especially vapid.
I was going to do a line by line break down of the complete asininity of this, but just reading it on your own is enough. It contradicts itself enough times and elevates positive traits to ridicule enough times to consign itself to the idiot pile. These articles generally reveal that the author has has limited interactions with tourists *AND THEIR OWN PEOPLE* and have had limited interactions while touring other places themselves – so they end up relying on their own heavily edited and outdated stereotypes to fill in the gaps.
Here goes:
Some of the Tell Tale Signs That a Tourist Traveling Abroad Is American
Kelly Vandan
It’s nice to feel incognito when traveling, but sometimes, you can’t hide who you are. If you are an American, there may be a few things you didn’t even realize you’re doing that make it easy for someone to spot you as a foreigner in a crowd. And hey, there’s no shame in being a tourist. But if you’re wondering how people worldwide can spot an American person miles away, we’ve compiled a list of the unique things that give it away.
Eating Sweet Food for Breakfast
There is perhaps no other country in the world that loves a sweet breakfast quite as much as America. From donuts to pancakes to waffles, if you are in the US, the number of sweet options for breakfast is seemingly endless. In many other countries, though, things are quite different. Salads and savory dishes are often served for breakfast, something that would come as quite a shock to the American traveler.
If you see someone abroad actively searching for a sweet breakfast, chances are high that they are an American tourist looking for something that reminds them of breakfast at home.
Socks With Sandals Is a Total Giveaway That Someone’s American
One of the biggest fashion controversies is whether or not it is acceptable to wear socks with sandals. Most people would claim that the answer is no, and yet there are many people seen wearing this combination on the regular – especially American tourists. Maybe they are confused with the weather or didn’t want to pack multiple pairs of shoes, but this is a pretty telltale sign that an American is approaching.
This is a pretty clever solution to having to pack multiple pairs of shoes. Instead of bringing warm shoes and cool shoes, you can just layer on socks.
Only Americans Wear Shorts in the Cold
Ok, so it’s not only Americans who wear shorts outside even when it is cold, but it is definitely one of the most obvious signs that someone is a tourist. Of course, cold is subjective. In some countries, it may be in the upper 60s, and the locals will think it is cold, while tourists (especially from America) may think it is quite hot. That is when you’ll see the locals bundled up and the Americans in shorts.
It is pretty common to see Americans wearing shorts outside, even if it is snowing or there is snow on the ground. Aren’t their legs cold?
Thinking Everything, Including Stores, Will Be Open Conveniently Late
In the US, stores tend to be open pretty late. It is common to find stores that will be open past 10 pm, and many are also 24/7. However, in many other countries, especially in Europe, stores close at a relatively early hour. You can’t just pop out to the store to run some errands at 9 pm under normal circumstances. You have to plan your day to get it done earlier.
Some stores will close as early as 6 pm in many countries in the world. If you need to grab a few items before the evening, be sure to plan in advance.
Having Lots of Pride in Their Flag
If you are from America, you might not know that most countries are not too eager to display their flag on their clothes. They would rather keep the flags for places like above the supreme court or government buildings. However, Americans are quite the opposite. They tend to be pretty patriotic and are eager to show that to the world by putting the American flag on all sorts of clothing items.
Some countries might even consider it offensive to put their flag on articles of clothing. While the flag is something to be proud of, it is also something to honor.
Wearing Tall White Socks Shows You Are an American
Although tall white socks are no longer a very common fashion choice, there was a time when they were all the rage, especially with American tourists. While traveling abroad, this was one of the easiest ways to identify an American tourist, as no one else really tried to embody this look. It’s not really clear why this ever became popular in the US and why it became something particularly associated with tourists.
If you want to avoid one of the biggest American tourist fashion faux pas, avoid wearing very tall white socks. They can be knee length or even just mid-calf, and that is already considered too long.
Exaggerating a Bit About Their Non-American Heritage
Who doesn’t love to learn a little bit about their family history? After all, most people who live in the US do not originally come from the US (unless you have Native American heritage). As a melting pot of cultures, people are always eager to talk about their heritage and their ancestry, claiming to be Italian or Irish if they have just one person in their ancient family history that came from there.
It may come across as offensive if an American is traveling to Italy and claims to be Italian when they really just have one great great great grandparent who was born there.
Smiling at Strangers Is an American Thing
Of course, it depends on where you are coming from and where you are living. However, there is no doubt that many people think that smiling at strangers is one of the strangest things a person can do. You don’t know them, so why would you smile at them? However, this is extremely common for Americans, and if you don’t smile at a stranger, it is even considered to be rude.
If you see a stranger smiling at you in the streets of Paris or Milan, chances are very high that they are an American tourist. It is almost definitely not a local.
Thinking Everyone Will Just Understand or Speak English
Living in a country where the vast majority of the citizens speak English and a country that is so large can lead you to think that almost the whole world speaks English. Although English is certainly the most international language, you can’t expect everyone to be able to speak it well, especially in a country where that is not the official language. Many American tourists have a hard time understanding this concept.
If you are traveling to a new place, consider learning a bit of the local language. People will really appreciate it if you can say hello and ask how you are.
Baseball Is American, and so Are Baseball Hats
If you are American, this one may come as quite a surprise to you. Although fashion trends are changing rapidly to make the baseball hat much more popular, that wasn’t always the case. As baseball is a very American sport and one that is played in very few countries outside of the US, most countries also do not wear baseball hats as a result. They opt for other headware.
If you are traveling abroad and wearing a baseball hat, there is a good chance that people will assume that you are an American tourist just because of the hat.
Striking up a Random Conversation With Literally Anyone
Some things may be completely normal in the US and feel normal to do even when you are outside of the country, but you need to be aware that they might be giving away the fact that you are American. For example, starting a friendly conversation with a stranger shows that you’re most likely American. Other people from other cultures aren’t always that friendly and open; it is something very telling of US culture.
You might be surprised, as an American, if your waiter or waitress isn’t used to having small talk with you as you order your meal. In some places, it’s more straight to business.
Asking for Your Drink To-Go Is an American Habit
This might come as quite a surprise to many Americans, but the vast majority of countries do not like to have their food and drinks to go – especially coffee. In countries like Italy, it can even be considered slightly offensive and absurd to take a coffee to go. What is the rush? Don’t you want to enjoy it? If you ask for something to go, it is a pretty big giveaway that you are an American.
Coffee to go is pretty much one of the biggest backbones of American culture. It is crazy to think that other countries find this concept unacceptable.
Hawaiian Shirts Are Saved for the Americans
Who doesn’t love a good old Hawaain shirt? They are bright and colorful and full of flowers and make you easy to spot in a crowd (unless you are in a crowd of Americans). Hawaiian shirts have become more popular over the years and are very trendy lately, especially when it comes to floral prints. However, they are still a staple of the American tourist and something that makes it clear where you are from.
If this gives you away as a tourist, perhaps it is for the best. It also makes you look bright and happy, so it’s worth it.
Touching Things (and Animals) They Shouldn’t
One of the most important things to keep in mind while traveling and visiting historical sites is to keep your hands to yourself. You shouldn’t touch things that are historical, especially if there are specific signs requesting otherwise. Many tourists traveling abroad do not take these signs seriously, and they can actually cause a decent amount of damage to historic sites and museums or such as a result. Always be vigilant!
This is not something that specifically applies to Americans, however. It seems to be a general issue with tourists from all different places not following the rules.
Some Places Think That Asking to Box up Leftovers Is Weird
In the US, it is extremely common to ask for a doggy bag to take any unfinished food home with you. After all, sometimes you just can’t finish your whole meal, and there is no reason to leave it behind at the restaurant if you paid for it. You can take it home and have a snack for later. However, this is actually pretty uncommon in many countries outside of the US.
Although the restaurant probably won’t tell you no, they will be a bit surprised and maybe even assume that you are American as a result. But who cares? It’s worth having the snacks!
If Someone Sits in the Taxicab’s Front Seat, They’re Probably American
If you are an American, you know that if you take a taxi, it is expected for the person to sit in the back seat of the taxi, especially if you are alone. The only time that you venture to the front seat is if you are a large group and all three back seats are already taken. However, in other countries avoiding sitting in the front seat can actually come across as quite rude.
Taxi drivers will think that you’re a bit snobbish if you don’t sit in the front seat and opt for the back. Maybe they are more understanding once they realize that you’re American.
A Love for Applauding
American tourists (or maybe just all tourists in general) can be pretty excited about everything that is going on around them. The sights and experiences are new and exciting, and it’s hard for them to contain their applause. You shouldn’t be too surprised if you see American tourists clapping a bit excessively at things that most others would not consider clap-worthy. But can you really blame or judge them? They are just excited!
There is something so pure and cute about seeing tourists excited to visit a new place. After all, it is just pure enthusiasm.
Big Tips Are an American Thing
Tipping culture varies from place to place and country to country. In the US, tipping is very popular and almost considered mandatory. And not only that, they are very, very high tippers (over 25% sometimes). In other countries, this is not the norm, to say the least. If you tip at all, it is a much smaller number, and it is not usually considered a requirement for each and every dinner or act of service.
If you are abroad and see someone tipping very high at a restaurant or a taxi driver, you can be safe to assume that they are most likely Americans.
Ancient History Is Extra Exciting for American Tourists
People who grew up in countries that have a history that is thousands of years old tend to take for granted the fact that not all places boast such a robust history with such remarkable and ancient structures. Americans tend to be pretty excited when they travel abroad and see structures that have been standing for hundreds or thousands of years. After all, most of their history (other than that of the Native Americans) started in 1776.
This is actually a really cute quality for American tourists. While tourists in the US will be excited by the big buildings and the modern conveniences, Americans feel the opposite.
Expecting Lemonade Abroad to Be the Same as American Lemonade
If you are American, you probably think that lemonade is the same thing no matter where you live. However, that is very much not the case. The sweetened lemon water drink that is served in the US is probably not what you will receive if you order lemonade in other countries. On the contrary, you will probably get a processed soda like Sprite instead of a homemade drink.
If you are looking to order a lemonade while traveling abroad, maybe ask for some details before, just to make sure that it is the same thing that you are looking for.
Americans Have a Reputation for Taking Selfies Even When/where It’s Not Appropriate
One important thing to keep in mind when you are traveling the world is that you need to make sure that you are always alert and aware and making sure not to make any stupid mistakes in the place that you travel to. One such stupid mistake could be taking a selfie in the bike lane in the Netherlands – something you should not do, and that will make the locals quite angry.
The locals probably won’t be too surprised when they find out that the guilty party was an American tourist, as this is a somewhat stereotypical action of tourists.
Taking Personal Space Very Seriously
Maybe because the US is such a big country, and people are used to having plenty of space for themselves, they tend to hope for the same while they are on vacation. Although they have no issue being friendly and talking to strangers, they usually value that personal space and want to maintain it as much as possible. There is a good balance between being friendly and keeping a distance.
This may be a bit of an extreme example of people keeping their personal space, but you get the idea!
Not Being Used to Public Transport and Pedestrians
One of the strangest things about the US, specifically in the suburbs or smaller cities, is the extreme lack of pedestrians. It’s sort of a chicken or egg situation, but there are very few pedestrians and even fewer sidewalks in some places. People tend to just drive everywhere (it is a big country, after all). However, in other countries around the world, walking from place to place is very common.
There is also the fact that in the US, public transport can be risky and dangerous, which causes people to opt for Uber instead of busses or walking.
Being Super Duper Enthusiastic When Traveling
Americans, in general, are known to be friendly, open, and talkative people, especially when they are traveling. But why do you think they are particularly open and friendly when they are abroad? Maybe it is because they are not busy with the stresses of work and then can be the next level of friendly and excited. Either way, imagine the typical American excitement and multiply it, and that is when you will see an American tourist.
Enthusiasm is a good thing. It probably makes people enjoy their experiences and their travels even more than others.
Trying to Use American Money Everywhere
Although the US dollar is one of the most widely accepted currencies in the world, you cannot assume that it is accepted by everyone. Not everyone wants to deal with the hassle of exchanging money. If you are visiting another country, be sure to exchange the amount of money that you need and use the local currency. Only use your American dollars if you are in a pinch and have no other choice.
Some places actually prefer to take US dollars over the local currency, but you can’t just assume. Maybe have a combination of both if you want to be on the safe side.
Ordering French Fries on the Side of Everything
Although French fries are arguably one of the most delicious foods to have ever been created, there is a time and a place that they are appropriate to have with a meal. Many Americans may be under the impression that they are always fitting, even though that is not really the case. While it may be common to order them on the side of a salad or pizza, in other countries, it is considered strange.
If you’re an American traveling abroad and you try to order French fries with your pizza, there is a good chance you’ll end up with French fries on top of your pizza instead of on the side.
Expecting Cars to Just Stop Anytime You Cross the Street
So this varies very much depending on where you are from in the US. While there is a good portion of Americans who must truly think that cars just have to stop when they step onto the road (mostly New Yorkers), there are many who wait for the light to be green before they cross. Although this action might be fine in New York, it could get someone killed in another country.
Cars will usually stop for someone who is crossing the street, as they don’t want to hit anyone, but they are not as accustomed to it as in other places.
Getting Confused by the Metric System
Perhaps the most obvious sign of an American tourist is their inability to understand the metric system. As the vast majority of countries in the world use the metric system (with just three countries as the exception), it is pretty obvious. The other two countries, Myanmar and Liberia, are also using the imperial system, but there are far more American tourists than tourists from those countries, so the likelihood of them being American is stronger.
It is always a shock for American tourists to be abroad and try to understand the different units of measurement (even if they are a lot more straightforward than their own system).
Giving a Detailed Response When Someone Asks Where You Live
The United States of America is a very big place. To tell someone who asks where you are from that you are from the US can come across as pretty vague. After all, it is a big country. However, people from Russia will usually just say that they are from Russia, while Americans will list their hometown and state as if everyone knows exactly what they are talking about and where this is.
Maybe they are just really proud of their hometown and want to tell people all about it, that is why they share the details with everyone.
Restroom Versus Bathroom
If you are an American tourist traveling abroad and you are looking for the bathroom, you should consider carefully how you ask for directions, especially if the country is not full of native English speakers. Most people will recognize the term bathroom, but toilets may be better. If you use the term restroom, other people may be left confused (or convinced that you are from the United States of America).
In the UK, everyone will know what you are talking about, but they will probably laugh at “the Americans” for using this term instead of a more common one.
Living in Cities Named After European Capitals
It’s safe to say that most people will assume that the place they live in is the original location of the place. For example, if someone lives in Brisbane, California, they probably don’t even think twice that the original Brisbane is in Australia. They think that they are the original. This seems to be a reoccurring theme with American tourists. They don’t quite understand that the US is a relatively new country, and the names of places are repurposed.
Most people are probably aware that places like Paris in the US are named after the famous French city, but other city names that are not quite as famous may be more confusing.
Apparently, They Can Get Rowdy When Traveling
This may just be the number one thing that will enable you to spot a group of tourists that are from America: the volume of their voices. Maybe they are used to having enormous spaces between them and the person that they are trying to talk to, but it is pretty well known that Americans talk very loudly. Even if you are a couple of tables down, you will probably still be able to hear their conversations easily.
If you are ever sitting on a train (which in many other countries is usually a pretty quiet place) and hear lots of loud talking, chances are high that they are tourists.
American Tourists Tend to Be Extroverts
It is no secret that Americans are generally friendly people who love to start conversations with random strangers. It is one of the most known characteristics of an American, whether they are traveling or at home. They are curious and welcoming and always ready to chat. Not all tourists are like this, however. So if you see some overly friendly and extroverted tourists, chances are high that they are Americans.
This is generally a really great character trait as long as it does not take a turn into the realm of obnoxious. Be friendly, but also give space!
Somehow Being Public and Private at the Same Time
Now, this is something that only a person from the US will completely understand. While Americans are often generalized as being open and friendly, there are definitely certain subjects that are off-limits and that they would prefer not to talk about. They may go on for hours about their favorite sports team or their hometown, but ask them how much money they make or their age, and their lips are sealed.
It can be hard to understand what is taboo and what is acceptable if you did not grow up in the US.
Sneakers Are the Go-To Shoe
It’s hard to say that sneakers are a particularly American shoe. However, you can say that a great majority of Americans wear them, especially when traveling abroad. While foreigners from other countries may opt for sandals, boots, or hiking shoes, Americans are famous for their sneakers. After all, they are comfortable and versatile, so it’s easy to understand why. Why not choose a shoe that never gets old and goes with everything?
There are also so many different types of sneakers to choose from, different styles and colors. The options are endless.
Coffee Versus Tea With Americans
What do you prefer, coffee or tea? In general, people around the world tend to prefer coffee over tea as it is the most popular beverage. However, in some countries, tea is very common and greatly enjoyed. The most famous country for tea is clearly the UK, but India and some Middle Eastern countries also greatly value it. In the US, it is less appreciated, and although there are some tea drinkers, there are not too many.
Not choosing tea over coffee will give it away that you are probably American rather than British. However, this is just a generalization, as many Americans do enjoy a good cup of tea!
Using American English
It is no secret that things are said a little bit differently in different parts of the world, even if the places speak the same language. However, it is one thing to acknowledge that and appreciate the differences, and it is a whole other thing to make fun of how other people say something. If someone from the UK says queue instead of a line, it is not something to make fun of, just a difference!
It can be funny to see how things are said between different people around the world, and even funnier that someone might not even understand them, even if it’s the same language.
Getting Stuck on Certain Stereotypes About a Country
It’s hard not to get stuck in stereotypes and images that you get in your mind about a place. After all, there are reasons that places are famous and reasons that people think of snow in Russia or heat in Africa. However, it is important not to get stuck in those stereotypes. This isn’t an issue, particularly with American tourists, but with all tourists. You want to feel the love in Paris, but that isn’t all the city offers.
Being naive while traveling is definitely not something that exclusively plagues American tourists and is a problem with just about every tourist that doesn’t do their research before a trip.
Wearing Their Heart on Their Sleeve (or Car)
Now, this is definitely not something that can be said about all Americans. However, there is a large portion of Americans that have some very strong religious beliefs. And because they grew up in an area where just about everyone else they knew also had those religious beliefs, they might not be very aware of other religions. This can be potentially problematic when they are traveling to countries where the majority religion is not theirs.
If you want to avoid overly touristic behavior while traveling (and just have common decency), be sure to accept and understand other belief systems while traveling.
The World Is a Very Diverse Place
Something that American tourists tend to forget or not consider is that the term African American cannot be used for all Black people. Many people use it in order to sound respectful and kind, but Black people from Africa are not African American. They may have never visited the US or even had a family member there. Not to mention that there are also Black people who are not African.
It can come across as quite offensive to use the term African American so broadly. It doesn’t show much understanding of the history of the word and its origins.
I was friends with a French student in graduate school who came from a blue-collar background. He was shocked to find out that most Americans were ‘poor’. I took him to Wal-Mart through the rural South and he was dumbstruck. He thought all Americans were rich. He was also shocked by how nice the people were here. I realized that he had only met American tourists and I explained to him that only wealthy Americans could afford to travel to France (over 60% of Americans have never left the country). I apologized for them and he said it was OK, because American tourists and Parisians deserve each other.
Here is an article worth commenting about.
https://reason.com/2023/07/20/here-is-why-trumps-contingent-electors-say-they-did-nothing-illegal/
OK, I’m admitting to an unethical act. I received a package meant for someone else. I suspect the company forgot a 2 or 3 on the front of the address and it was delivered to my house. I was going to contact the company, find the correct address, and drop it off on my way to work this morning. The company only has a web form for contact, no phone or text number. It states that I should expect 3-4 days for a reply. I don’t want to wait that long, I don’t want to give them my e-mail address so I can get more spam. I sent them a message with a @noreply e-mail address stating that they sent a package to the wrong house and their customer would have gotten the item if only the company had a phone number to call or text.
I am going to go to the post office tomorrow to send the thing half-way across the country to get the right address so it can be sent back. I shouldn’t have sent the nasty note, but that just bugs me, especially for a company with an ‘Environmental Sustainability’ link on their page.
Phil, the Prince of Insufficient Light, is going to pop up behind my couch and whack me with his ‘pitchspoon’ tonight, isn’t he. I’m going to be darned to heck.
If you can Google the name of the person and part of the address, you may find the right person and be able to deliver it should the address be nearby.
I was once delivered a package along with a package belonging to someone else entirely – correct address was on the label and everything. Fortunately, there was also a phone number on the label, too, so I called the correct recipient, explained that I’d received her package by accident and offered to meet her at a neutral location to deliver it.
Here is a tweet from Adam Schiff.
If I’m ever asked to introduce him at the VFW Pancake Jubilee, I’ll be sure to say:
“Adam Schiff, Constitutional Scholar”
Is he wrong here?
(NOTE: MA, for some reason WordPress is making me pass every one of your comments through moderation as if it were the first one. I don’t know why, but it means that when I’m away, your posts will sit in “Pending.” I’m sorry for the inconvenience.)
If he was wrong, I would not introduce him as a “Constitutional Scholar.”
Oh, ok. It seemed sarcastic to me, not genuine.
I called my government professor and his answer was, “it’s complicated.” It certainly would be unprecedented in this context.
No impeachment has ever been expunged. That doesn’t mean one could not have been expunged.
Expungements are far more closely associated with the legal process than the political process. They are often sought in state and local courts to erase the record of a prior conviction for certain predetermined offenses. People who have been acquitted or have had charges against them dropped also petition for expungements to remove it from their records, and some states even automatically purge those convictions after a given amount of time.
It’s far from clear that the House would have the legal or political authority to erase such a record, but we just might soon find out.
Interesting answer, thank you.
I heard somewhere (sorry, can’t remember where) that the house that impeached him could have expunged the record, but the current house cannot. Which would make Schiff’s tweet incorrect. Of course, it would also make those attempting to expunge the impeachments incorrect, as well as ridiculous—the impeachments happened, there is a vast ocean of textual evidence proving they happened that can’t be erased. Just seems like a silly waste of time meant to soothe Trump’s ego. Of that at least Schiff is correct.
The House should impeach FJB.
https://reason.com/2023/07/21/nyc-agrees-to-pay-13-million-to-activists-arrested-in-2020-racial-justice-protests/?comments=true#comment-10163998
Based on unverified allegations from an anonymous source? That would be like impeaching Trump over the Steele dossier. Ridiculous.
A nice snap impeachment could uncover the truth.
That’s not the purpose of an impeachment.
Impeachment has lost its original (and important) purpose, thanks to its abuse by House Democrats.
I disagree. Both impeachments were about corrupt abuses of power—the first in an illegal attempt to withhold approved funds for Ukraine in exchange for political targeting of an opponent, the second for illegally trying to stay in power beyond his term. If the latter doesn’t merit impeachment, nothing does.
The second was inexcusable. No hearings, no witnesses, no actual evidence. Just a majority taking advantage of its votes. The first: it was suddenly finding impeachable the kind of threat and parry horse-trading most (or all) Presidents have engaged in (and need to), further corrupted by the announced intent of so many Democrats to find something to impeach Trump on. What was designed ass a non-partisan tool to ensure integrity was weaponized into just another weapon of partisan politics.
As the laptop proved, there was far more than enough probable cause to take a second look at the firing of that prosecutor.
I would like to know how merely asking for an investigation of a possible political opponent is an impeachable offense, but actually indicting a political opponent is not.
As my longtime Usenet ally, Christopher Charles Morton, wrote, Fuck Joe Biden.
I write, impeach FJB!
Jack: I was referring to the reasons for the second impeachment, not necessarily the way they went about it. It was indeed a rushed procedure, but I think if they hadn’t rushed it, they’d be condemned for trying to impeach a president who was no longer in office. It was a no-win situation–let the president off the hook for trying (however stupidly, unsuccessfully, and impossibly) to stay in office beyond his term, to the point of inspiring (if not inciting) violence at the Capitol, or use time and resources to impeach a president who had already lost, was (at the time) losing his party’s support at record speed, seemed to not even be in control of his own White House for the last two weeks of his administration, and presumably (oh how naive we were) wouldn’t pose a problem in the future anyway. At the time I supported the former option, and now that Republicans have so fully moved on from January 6th that Trump is likely to be the nominee and may even get back to the office he attempted to illegally stay in, I think that decision only looks better in hindsight.
I also disagree with your characterization of Trump’s call to Ukraine as “normal horse-trading.” He was not acting in the best interests of the US when he made that call, only his own in demanding an investigation into his political opponent. He went through private channels and used his personal lawyer as the point man. And he secretly went around Congress after signing the aid into law, then released it after the phone call (which he tried to cover it up) was made public. All point to corrupt intent.
Finally, both impeachments were the most bipartisan in history; no other president had ever received a single impeachment vote from the opposition party. That should throw a kink into the narrative that it was all a partisan “get Trump” effort.
“No other president had ever received a single impeachment vote from the opposition party”—it’s a great point, worth making. it’s a bit of a technicality: Nixon was clearly going to have both parties voting for his impeachment, and, I’d argue that only Nixon and Clinton were shown to have actually met the Constitutional requirements for a justified impeachment. Again, Democrats were openly trying to find something to impeach Trump over. Given that mindset, almost every President from FDR forward probably could have been impeached.
And I do NOT know why all of your comments end up in moderation. It’s inconvenient for you, and a pain for me. I’m sorry—I’m checking with WordPress about it. Patience.
As I quoted above, there was far more than enough probable cause to ask for an investigation.
Not even sure where to start with your comment, Michael Ejercito…
1) The laptop wasn’t released until over a year after Trump’s Ukraine call, and therefore no evidence on it could possibly justify it.
2) You’ll have to show me what evidence you’re referring to that shows Biden acted alone in pushing for the firing of Viktor Shokin, who was widely seen as corrupt and whose firing had been called for by numerous world leaders. I doubt they were all trying to get him fired to assist Hunter Biden, who was never personally under investigation, and who did not even work at Burisma during the time period that Shokin’s investigation (which by all appearances he was neglecting) was looking into.
3) Trump did not merely “ask” for an investigation, he tied it to foreign aid that had already been signed off on. We know this because he did not release the funds until after he was caught doing this.
4) President Biden did not indict Donald Trump. A special counsel did. There is no evidence that Biden ever personally ever even asked for an investigation of Trump–which would in fact be inappropriate, as the DOJ is supposed to be independent and the president is not supposed to tell them what to do beyond general policy priorities (go harder on white collar crime, go easier on immigration, that kind of thing). There is no evidence he interfered at all with Jack Smith’s decision to indict Trump or with the appointment of a special counsel to begin with. So your comparison is meaningless.
Wrongdoing does not become right just because other people agreed with it.
There was nothing wrong with this.
The DoJ is not supposed to be independent., any more than the DoD is supposed to be independent.
Jack, you say more presidents would have been impeached like it’s a bad thing…
I would love to live in a country where the leader was too terrified of facing actual accountability to break the law or their oath of office. As it stands now, the impeachment power may as well not exist. Clinton should have been impeached—it would have set a good precedent and a higher standard for office. Instead it created a perpetual whataboutism machine (you’re not engaging in whataboutism now, I’m speaking in general).
The expectation with Nixon
was that he would fade away into obscurity after office after he resigned. There could be no such expectation that Trump would ever resign or take himself out of the public eye, not only because of his individual character, but because of the incentive structure of our current politics and media. By all indications, he kept committing new crimes against the US even after leaving office. We live in a much more partisan and much less accountable time than we did then, and until we start actually holding our office holders accountable, it will only get worse.
Well, that’s just a different position regarding executive power than I hold; it’s not an uncommon one, nor is it one without substantial scholarly support. I think history has shown that a President has to have a significant margin of error to be effective. All of the strong Presidents have gone right up to constitutional lines, and occasionally crossed them, usually, though not always, to the nation’s benefit.
Michael: “As I quoted above, there was far more than enough probable cause to ask for an investigation.”
You said the laptop provided the probably cause, but the laptop wasn’t uncovered until after the bribe (not “ask”) was made. That doesn’t make any sense.
And if I were president, and I wanted a legitimate investigation, I wouldn’t rely on the head of a foreign government that I have already described as “corrupt” to lead one. Perhaps that’s why Trump did not actually demand an investigation in his quid pro quo phone call–only the public announcement of one. Because the goal was always to muddy the waters and use the announcement as a PR and campaign strategy against Joe Biden. Anyone who thinks Trump was seriously concerned about corruption in Ukraine is fooling themselves.
It involved the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor. It was perfectly acceptable to ask Zelenskyy to take a second look.
“Wrongdoing does not become right just because other people agreed with it.”
A nonsensical non sequitur. There was nothing wrong with pushing Ukraine to fire Shokin. The only wrongdoing that is alleged is that Joe’s motive for doing this was to protect his son. I have explained why that is unlikely to have been the motive, and the fact that so many others also agreed Shokin should be fired is just a part of that explanation. Ergo, no wrongdoing.
“There was nothing wrong with this.”
Except for everything I explained that was wrong with this, sure.
“The DoJ is not supposed to be independent., any more than the DoD is supposed to be independent.”
You cannot pretend to object to political targeting of enemies by the DOJ and then say this, it gives the game away. Yes, the DOJ answers to the president, but without at least the expectation that it should be independent–an expectation that Biden, by the way, has explicitly articulated, and Trump constantly undermined–you would see a lot more political targeting than we do now.
As I already said, he didn’t ask for a second look, he asked for a public announcement of such. And there was nothing to take a second look at, as everyone in the US government knew why Shokin was fired, and supported the move. He could have asked many, many people besides Zelensky. And even if asking him was appropriate, it was not appropriate to threaten to withhold aid until the ask was fulfilled, and then only release it once he was caught. That’s what he was impeached for, as you keep ignoring.
There was nothing wrong with that.
The video of FJB bragging about getting the prosecutor fired was enough probable cause to justify asking for a public announcement for a second look.
Michael, this is like talking to a wall.
“There was nothing wrong with that.”
I explained what was wrong with it. Asking for an “announcement” means Trump didn’t care if there was an actual investigation, or what the results of one would be. It meant he wanted it as a PR and campaign strategy. In other words, he was asking for election help from a foreign government. I know the former president is on record as saying there is nothing wrong with that, but that shouldn’t have any bearing on what an ethical person should believe.
“The video of FJB bragging about getting the prosecutor fired was enough probable cause to justify asking for a public announcement for a second look”
A huge moving of the goalposts from the laptop claim, and nonsensical—this video was available upon a first look, and the facts I gave you above—that Biden was enacting Obama administration policy supported by Congress and our allies—makes it irrelevant. Should Biden have been the one to handle the demand? Probably not, because upon first appearance, it looks bad, and allows people like you to construct fanciful conspiracy theories. But the moment you look under the surface, it becomes impossible to believe that Biden acted alone, for personal benefit in this case.
Biden’s demand was made publicly and transparently, had bipartisan and global support, and was in the national interest. Trump’s was done secretly, against the will of Congress, and done only for personal and political gain, which is why he tried to cover it up. That’s why he was impeached.
There was nothing wrong with that.
Maybe the second look would have been a dead end. No harm, no foul
.
Or maybe not.
Of course, now we know what a second look would have revealed.
https://reason.com/2023/07/21/nyc-agrees-to-pay-13-million-to-activists-arrested-in-2020-racial-justice-protests/?comments=true#comment-10163998
Ah, Michael, so you admit “there was nothing wrong with” Joe Biden enacting bipartisan and globally supported Obama administration policy by pressuring for the firing of the corrupt prosecutor Viktor Shokin. Finally!
(I’m sure that’s not what you meant to say, but it’s what you said. I guess that’s what happens when you just copy-paste the same mindless reply over and over again instead of engaging with the argument.)
“Maybe the second look would have been a dead end. No harm, no foul”
The “harm” is in creating a phony fake news talking point for a campaign through extorting a foreign power for election help, standing in the way of democratically enacted policy goals supporting the national and global interest in order to sabotage a political opponent, and normalizing the practice of presidents putting aside those interests in favor of weaponizing foreign policy for the sole purpose of increasing their own power. There is no justification for tying aid meant to help Ukraine ward off Russian aggression to an announcement of an investigation into Joe Biden; one has nothing to do with the other. It is actually wrong to use such a bribe against a foreign government to get them to help you in an election, and if you don’t understand that, you don’t belong within 1000 virtual feet of an ethics blog.
And if it had been a “dead end,” which it was, Trump wouldn’t have cared; he would have just continued to lie about what was proven, and his followers would have believed him. As you have done here (lied or gullibly believed, take your pick).
“Of course, now we know what a second look would have revealed.”
You don’t “know” anything other than what Republicans claim an anonymous source has said, which “reveals” nothing. The last big source that Republicans hyped who was supposed to take down Joe Biden turned out to be an unregistered foreign agent for China. Republicans in Congress touted his “disappearance” and then it turned out he was on the run from the feds. That didn’t humiliate you enough? At the very least, it didn’t make you think you should be the slightest bit skeptical of such claims absent any evidence?
This was clear from your frequent use of “FJB,” but your bias has made you incapable of discussing or processing this topic maturely or rationally. You accept as fact baseless allegations about your political enemies while blissfully ignoring proof of wrongdoing on the part of your allies. You are clearly in favor of Republicans weaponizing the state as a tool to target Democrats while pouncing on even the flimsiest evidence of Democrats doing the same to Republicans as grounds for impeachment. It’s absurd, and you’ve done a disgraceful job at defending it.
There was nothinn illegal about withholding approved funds from the Ukraine.
And I was told the seocnd imepachment was about plotting to attack the Capitol.
It may have been justified. The revelation of that video was probable cause for a second look- which, for all I knew at the time, would have reinforced the case for firing that prosecutor.
Who decides what rhse democratically enacted policy goals are?
It was not a bribe because the thing of value was not offered to an individual.
Why not have a nice snap impeachment and find out?
“There was nothinn illegal about withholding approved funds from the Ukraine.”
Incorrect.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1117031
“And I was told the seocnd imepachment was about plotting to attack the Capitol.”
The impeachment charged him with inciting the attack, not plotting it, and how is that mutually exclusive to what I said? The whole point of the attack was to keep Trump in office past his term!
“The revelation of that video was probable cause for a second look”
Again, there was no “revelation” of that video; it was always available, as were the facts I have repeatedly given you showing that Biden did not act alone and was enforcing official US policy. Yet you keep repeating this meaningless drivel.
“Who decides what rhse democratically enacted policy goals are?”
In this case, Congress. Trump could have vetoed the aid. Instead he withheld it secretly after signing it for a corrupt purpose.
“It was not a bribe because the thing of value was not offered to an individual.”
Absurd and meaningless. Almost crosses into gaslighting. Not even worth responding to. You’re desperate.
“Why not have a nice snap impeachment and find out?”
Asked and answered. That is not the purpose of impeachment. They can have an investigation. Impeachment at this point would be an abuse of power meant to do nothing but smear a political enemy. But again, we’ve established you like that kind of thing and think it is good when done to Democrats. Using ethical and rational arguments clearly has no effect on you, because you are only motivated by power. I can only hope others witnessing this discussion can see that.
Please look at how this story headline is woke-spun by People magazine;
“Shock Twist at Columbus Zoo as ‘Male’ Gorilla Gives Birth to Surprise Baby Girl”
https://people.com/shock-twist-at-columbus-zoo-as-male-gorilla-gives-birth-to-baby-girl-7564204
The word ‘male’ is in single quotation marks, which connotes that the gorilla is not really male. If it were “woke-spun,” it wouldn’t have those.
https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/362555161_608938971365069_5068034577568076645_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=100&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=W916w9hn7gkAX_xfZ0q&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=00_AfAgZHitGZGYU2RvBLNIYWlbaL5wO7beFWR97R6nQiujJQ&oe=64C585C8
Arg. The image didn’t imbed. But for those who follow the link, the boy on the top left and the boy on the top right are 9 years old.
Discuss.