The solution is obvious: colleges should teach “Wheel of Fortune” skills…
The Indiana University press breathlessly proclaimed it as a cause for campus pride:
An Indiana University honors student fulfilled a lifelong dream of appearing on the iconic television game show “Wheel of Fortune.” Julian Batts, a Hudson and Holland Scholar, a Herbert Presidential Scholar and a Hutton Honors College student from Indianapolis, will appear on the show Friday, April 11, as part of its annual “College Week.” “I’ve watched it as long as I can remember,” he said of the game show, which has been on the air for more than 30 years. “I have always had that desire to be on the show and solve puzzles in front of a live audience.”
Batts traveled to Culver City, Calif., and taped the episode in February. Students from Indiana State and Purdue universities also were selected to participate in “College Week” matches. The Carmel High School graduate is majoring in business and Spanish. He is actively involved at Rose Avenue Residence Hall and as an usher at the IU Auditorium. He participated in IU’s Intensive Freshman Seminar program and the IU Beginnings program, which introduces a small group of students to recruiters from top companies that partner with the Kelley School of Business. He also is the third generation of his family to attend IU, and both of his parents earned IU degrees.
“This was an opportunity of a lifetime for Julian, and we’re happy that he has had this experience to add to the many wonderful experiences he’s enjoyed as an IU student,” said James Wimbush, IU vice president for diversity, equity and multicultural affairs and dean of the University Graduate School.
…On April 11, he looks forward to getting together with friends so they can see how well he did. “Regardless of whatever is aired on TV, I am glad I did it. I wouldn’t trade it for the world. It was an experience I will never forget,” he said. A viewing party for Batts will begin at 6:45 p.m. in Room 150 of the Student Building on the IU Bloomington campus.
Do make a mental note of the last part. Even after the taping, Julian was proud of his performance, and was thrilled about a viewing party. This glowing story was written after the following fiasco occurred.
The show aired yesterday. With a chance at a million dollar prize, Julian guessed every letter of a puzzle and only had to read it to win. What he saw was this:
He read the name of the “mythical character” as “A-CHill-Us. Obviously, this Hudson and Holland Scholar, Herbert Presidential Scholar and Hutton Honors College student has never encountered, in his high school, reading, discussions with his college-educated parents and fellow students, in his classes or by casually stopping at the History Channel, Homer, the Iliad, the story of the Trojan Horse, the cultural allusion of an “Achilles heel,” or many key components of what we laughingly refer to as basic cultural literacy.
Later, Julian had another chance to win if he could puzzle out this board:
He was told, as you can see, that the answer was a person. Julian guessed that one of the missing letters was “c.” Cat? Cad? OK, he was flustered. Maybe he was thinking about the “car” that would have been the prize, and that thought blew the right answer, and obvious one, out one ear. Still, it was embarrassing. Or should have been.
Some questions, rhetorical among them, raised by this tragic episode:
- Why would anyone hire someone like this, after this display of ignorance and pathetic reasoning abilities?
- Why are college degrees considered any kind of prerequisite for a job, if someone like Julian can graduate with such inadequate knowledge and skills?
- What do they teach in college? What do they teach in high school? What is regarded as an “education’ these days? The character of Achilles is a basic cultural point of reference; if one has never encountered his name to the extent that it is recognizable in print, then it is likely that the other basic knowledge and information missing is massive. I read about Achilles when I was nine. There are about six movies in which he is a character, the latest with him being portrayed by Brad Pitt. If you go through life with your eyes and ears open and the intellectual curiosity of a sea sponge, you should know who Achilles is.
- At what point do we hold parents and teachers accountable for not teaching, and allowing children to grow up more ignorant than the graduates of one-room school houses on the prairie in the 19th Century?
- What are all those scholarships and awards for that Julian won? What do they signify? If someone can be designated a “scholar” without knowing one of the major figures in Western literature, what does being a scholar mean now?
- Isn’t this fraud on potential employers? Julian will have all these credentials, and yet he has gaps in his knowledge base that you can run a truck through, and apparently lacks problem solving skills that we should expect, but obviously can’t, to be possessed by the average fourth grader.
- Why wasn’t Julian embarrassed? This is the really scary part of the story. He doesn’t even recognize what was wrong with his performance! He really thinks he’s educated, and ready to make his way in the world. If he was embarrassed, he might have the intellectual curiosity and pride to detect some urgency in learning what he doesn’t know, but he’s not. I bet he still can’t tell you who “A-CHill-US” is.
- Isn’t this an unconscionable fraud on students? Isn’t it cruel to tell young men and women that they are educated, smart and remarkable when they are in fact ignorant, deluded, and cognitively deficient?
On the Blaze, Glenn Beck’s new aggregating commentary site, the comment thread immediately degenerated into attacks on affirmative action and outright racism, for Julian is black.
First: this doesn’t speak well of Glenn Beck’s readership.
Second: it is unfair and unjust: if a critical mass of Julian’s colleagues and classmates in high school and college knew who Achilles was, so would he. This has nothing to do with race.All of our college students, of all races, are being cheated and deceived.
Third: The fact that affirmative action is the immediate reflex reaction of people like these commenters demonstrates how such a policy will always be racially divisive, and that the sooner it goes, the better.
Fourth: conservatives who smugly argue that racism in America is a myth—you know, like Achilles—should read threads like this.
Fifth: So should progressives and Democrats, because their racially divisive rhetoric has helped exacerbate the problem.
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Facts: The Blaze, Indiana University
Ethics Alarms 
Jack,
A fascinating subject. I agree with everything you say here, with one possible exception.
You suggest that Glenn Beck’s audience is an embarrassment (or should be). Yet you use its racist knee-jerk reaction to argue that we should get rid of affirmative action policies, since such policies are to racists as a red flag to a bull.
Is it too much to ask that people not be racist regardless of policies? Why should they get an individual moral hall-pass because of something like social affirmative action policies?
There are plenty of good reasons to argue against affirmative action policies: the fact that they enrage racists does not seem to me to be among them.
No, I’d say that they support racist arguments. I don’t care how much they are enraged—racists are enraged that minorities exist at all. It does neither race, nor society, any good to have incompetents and unqualified people getting jobs and degrees, or ever failing to appoint the best person for the job. Just as a white official who is chosen over a competent minority candidate and proves to be inept supports accusations of racism (even if that was not the reason), the advocacy for open ended affirmative action and quotas without end assists the racist argument that minorities can’t compete on a level playing field.
With affirmative action, an incompetent minority student or lawyer becomes an exemplar of group inferiority being covered up by race-favoring policies. Without, it is just an incompetent individual, of whom there are many in all groups.
My point was about using racist enragement as an argument against AA. Your response argues against AA, but I don’t think addresses the linkage of racist rage as a supporting argument. You don’t need it, IMHO, to make your point.
[I also disagree with you about AA, as you know, but that’s a different story for a different time; this is a narrow logic point I’m arguing here].
I know…it’s not essential, but don’t you think, without AA, the response of “well, no surprise: the guy is obviously an AA student” wouldn’t be available, and also couldn’t mask the real problems? I guarantee this episode will be treated differently by the conservative and mainstream press because Julian is black. The fact that there are students and graduates who may not have earned their slots by merit alone automatically creates a rebuttable presumption that the problem in such a case is a falsely credentialed individual, rather than false credentials and educational malpractice.
I have only stumbled upon this Web site while doing my job, sort of a background support position at an educational institution in Columbus, GA. But I find the articles and comments here very well written and I do intend to continue to follow the postings here into the future. Perhaps I will be able share some insights raised here with those who profess to be critical thinkers and ethics instructors at my place of employment.
As a former teacher, I think your questions were highly relevant. Charles Murray dedicated his book “Real Education” to the aging “old school” teacher who was forced out after not “giving out” enough passing grades.
We have been headed in this direction for some time. Like the rusting bridge that seems eternal and is now bending under stress. If kids didn’t “like” school we made it funner. If they disrupted classes we asked ourselves how we could improve their self esteem and behavior. If they had low grades we modified the standards. If they had no appreciation for the dominant culture we instituted mult culti programs and frauds such as ebonics.
So now we don’t understand why we have this as a product. We loved elite 100 meter sprinters, decided most people have to be elite sprinters, outfitted them with top notch equipment and minted thousands of gold medals for distribution. We made running as enjoyable as possible by letting them slide on 100 meter slides or video game reenactments and called it sprinting. Why didn’t it work?
I think its also an issue of deciding that things like Greek myth aren’t worth knowing in an employment sense. It “doesn’t matter” if you know who Achilles was, and in fact it is true that I have never been paid for many little tidbits that I know. So we teach children math and English only, teaching to the test, and do a terrible job of it, since we’re trying to construct a roof without walls.
That’s because the ignorant and critical thinking-challenged who make education policy don’t understand what critical thinking requires. Achilles teaches the concepts of hubris, arrogance, weakness in strength, flawed heroism, putting self before community, vengeance, cruelty, and more. No wonder our businesses are so ineptly run.
So does Akira Toriyama’s Dragonball manga- and is equally worth knowing in an employment sense.
I wouldn’t argue that. Of course, you couldn’t write Dragonball without a thorough knowledge of literature and mythology.
We have been headed in this direction for some time. Like the rusting bridge that seems eternal and is now bending under stress. If kids didn’t “like” school we made it funner. If they disrupted classes we asked ourselves how we could improve their self esteem and behavior. If they had low grades we modified the standards. If they had no appreciation for the dominant culture we instituted mult culti programs and frauds such as ebonics.
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Exactly what I was thinking.
Now Jack, you shouldn’t be so hard on him. If a U.S. congresswoman with a master’s degree can say “myzeld” without repercussions, how can you expect a poor college freshman to enunciate a weird word like “Achilles” – especially when he’s probably in a tizzy over being broadcast on national TV? Let’s try to be a little understanding here!
If a U.S. congresswoman with a master’s degree can say “myzeld” without repercussions,
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Good point although I believe she’s now claiming it was a Yiddish word.
😉
I wouldn’t hire Debbie Wasserman Schultz, either.
I agree with you on that! Case in point, President George W. Bush!!! Enough said!
My favorite kind of irony: a poster impugning the intelligence of another, who by doing so proves her own lack of intelligence:
1. Alex was being arch.
2. The standard of education and erudition is necessarily higher for elected leaders and those who presume to tell the public what it doesn’t know. Rep. Wasserman Schultz is a blithering dolt, it’s true, but I would be shocked into a stroke if she didn’t know who Achilles was.
3. President George W. Bush is a thoroughly educated and accomplished individual, and my guess is that he would trounce Elle in Wheel of Fortune, Jeopardy, or Scrabble. I know something about Harvard Business School, and idiots don’t get degrees there, no matter who their father may be.
4. People who say “Enough said!” have almost invariably said too much already.
Jack, it’s funny that you think highly if Bush, but negative about the teen. My point was that he is educated and served as president, but murdered simple words during his speeches. Enough said is a phrase that points out that educated people can bomb, when it comes to the simplest of words! Give the kid a break!!! As for trouncing me, you know nothing about my educational background and it proves how simpleminded you really are! Come back to this blog, when you have grown a pair! Attacking me will not make you seem any smarter my friend!!!
1. Saying “Enough said” as a form of debate will never make anyone appear “smart.”
2. I didn’t say I thought highly of Bush, and the next time you put words in my mouth, you’re toast. I said he was educated and accomplished.
3. The post was not about “murdering words.” It was about gaps in cultural literacy. George Bush knows who Achilles is.
4. I judge comments as they come. If you are educated, prove it with something more substantive and persuasive than “I agree with you on that!+—agreeing with a comment that was, in fact, tongue in cheek– “Case in point, President George W. Bush!!!” …when he is not a case in point…and “Enough said!”
5. I don’t have to come back to this blog, you idiot—it’s my blog.
Banned Elle, who was just a troll, after her predictable response. I confess to baiting her. She is typical of the commentariat on other blogs, “LOL,” “It takes one to know one,” etc. I don’t have much patience for that here, and won’t. Nor will I with blanket assertions that President Bush was intellectually deficient. There has never been an intellectually deficient US President, Harding perhaps being the closest, and anyone willing to take on that job deserves at least the modicum of basic respect that acknowledging that requires. This, plus the fact that a large proportion of our smartest and best educated Presidents have been among the worst and least successful. Leadership takes some intelligence, but not too much.
You should have told her, “wait a minute, lemme ask the owner of this blog and see if he’ll ask the moderation team for their opinion.”
I’m still on my heels that Elle told you to come back here when you’ve grown a pair. I really am.
No human being can be that utterly stupid. Not even the ones who think the Earth is flat….
No…
No….
It had to have been a grand ruse, a stratagem of some sort…. but for what…?
Criminy…Elle is either so colossally brilliant we’ll never get his/her purpose, or so colossally dumb, that a bag of hammers could beat him/her at tic-tact-toe.
When in doubt, Occam’s Razor.
The fact that you think Bush is thoroughly educated and accomplished, and would do well in any situation that required him to think on his feet, makes everything you say suspect.
Stupid comment. All you are doing is expressing bias that is in direct contradiction of known facts and evidence. A graduate of Yale with a Harvard Business School degree is thoroughly educated and accomplished, and with all his flaws, was a far, far more competent leader than the current “brilliant” one. Among other things, he actually made decisions in a timely fashion. Those who get Saturday Night Live parodies confused with real life are not reliable authorities on much.
Sorry – I know it’s tangential, but I can’t let this past.
As a graduate of Harvard Business School the year after George W. Bush, I cannot let pass your comment that Bush was a “thoroughly educated and accomplished individual, and my guess is that he would trounce Elle in Wheel of Fortune, Jeopardy, or Scrabble. I know something about Harvard Business School, and idiots don’t get degrees there, no matter who their father may be.”
Sorry, I think I may know more than you about HBS. One of his professors, also one of mine, went so far as to publicly criticize Bush, and the school for admitting him. Here’s a sample quote:
“For 25 years, Yoshi Tsurumi, one of George W. Bush’s professors at Harvard Business School, was content with his green-card status as a permanent legal resident of the United States. But Bush’s ascension to the presidency in 2001 prompted the Japanese native to secure his American citizenship. The reason: to be able to speak out with the full authority of citizenship about why he believes Bush lacks the character and intellect to lead the world’s oldest and most powerful democracy.
“I don’t remember all the students in detail unless I’m prompted by something,” Tsurumi said in a telephone interview Wednesday. “But I always remember two types of students. One is the very excellent student, the type as a professor you feel honored to be working with. Someone with strong social values, compassion and intellect — the very rare person you never forget. And then you remember students like George Bush, those who are totally the opposite.”
I did not know Bush personally. I did know Tsurumi, and though very highly of him. I also know that Harvard Business School admits 800 people per year into its MBA program and can assure you that – at least back then – many people were there because of who they were, who they knew, and who their families were. And I’m not saying that’s all bad, either. But it’s absurd to deny it.
As to trouncing Elle in a quiz show, based on what she wrote before you bounced her, my money would be on Elle.
Charles, that’s beneath you. You really think well of a teacher who would make a public statement like that about a student? Outrageous! Just outrageous.
Tell me under what situations, in business school or otherwise, a professor becomes privy to any student’s “social values, compassion and intellect” sufficiently to pass definitive judgment. This was a below the belt ideological hit, and presumably you will agree, upon reflection. Did Tsurumi flunk him? If not, then he is estopped from making this statement. “Compassion”? You mean they disagree on social policy? That doesn’t make Bush dumb. The dumb one is any professor who purports to judge a student conclusively based on one class.
My high school Latin teacher thought I was a lazy, slacker bum, which I was, in her class. My college economics professor gave me an A, which I didn’t deserve. My law school torts professor hired me, my contract professor became a lifelong friend, and my Civil Procedure professor thought I was an idiot, and probably still does. None of them were necessarily right, you know, and none had sufficient evidence or input to make a general announcement to the world.
Tsurumi was unprofessional in the extreme (Does Harvard approve of teachers trashing former students in the press? I am confident not—except Republicans, perhaps.) His statement, which included characterizations without confirmable incidents or evidence, has no probative value whatsoever, even for someone who likes the professor. Surely you can recognize a sniper shot. Tell me, if a professor did that to you, would it be fair? How could you respond?
If a professor did that to a non-public figure, I think there would be a law suit, and should be. Talk about a breach of student-teacher trust.
It’s an Anita Hill move, essentially. A miserable tactic academia appears to have an affection for. It stinks.
On the plus side, what a great topic! I’m researching the good professor now.
Definitely research him! And I can give you names of 75 classmates who also had him as a prof, and suspect every one of them will testify as to his wisdom and integrity.
The story that most stuck in my mind was of Tsurumi showing a segment of Grapes of Wrath in class, and Bush saying all those Okies were just lazy.
Tsurumi got good marks from students, even while shouldering the often thankless task of teaching arrogant American MBAs that not everybody in the world necessarily shared our particular parochial views.
You will find very few of his ’75 classmates willing to critique him–after all, you become friends with people after spending an intense year with them in one room. But you will also find most are reluctant to defend him as well–because you also learn a lot about people by spending a year with them in one room.
Thanks…I will also see if I can reach consensus about his conduct. First, yanking out student conduct to impugn public officials decades later is a slimy enterprise, and as I already said, it’s a clear breach of trust. What goes on in a class stays there, or should.
“My high school Latin teacher thought I was a lazy, slacker bum, which I was, in her class.”
Funny that you should use this anecdote, considering your post disparages a young man’s accomplishments and questions his intelligence based on a 30-minute game show appearance. At least your teacher had the decency to judge you on a year of effort (or lack thereof).
Julian Batts was in a foreign and pressure-filled environment, in front of a studio audience of probably hundreds of people, and on national television. You’ve never met him, and know nothing about him beyond his various academic accolades, and yet you talk about his Wheel of Fortune experience as a sad, ominous disaster. Strange is a descriptor I can agree with, but everything else in your post is irresponsible and full of baseless assumptions.
You quoted Julian as saying: “Regardless of whatever is aired on TV, I am glad I did it. I wouldn’t trade it for the world. It was an experience I will never forget.”
I’m sure Julian knows he screwed up, but rather than pretend like it never happened, he is embracing the experience and probably learning from it. If your post is any indication, however, you haven’t yet learned that you shouldn’t judge someone’s abilities or character based on a single event.
Your comment, I think, rather minimizes the importance of deductive reasoning, and refuses to acknowledge that we are always tested, and in the world of employment, seeking jobs, one shot is all we get. There are some things we can tell about people in very brief encounters–you do it every day. We can say, don’t you think, that Julian is not very good at Wheel of Fortune, correct? We can certainly say that his performance did not demonstrate qualities of analysis, knowledge and critical thinking that we should expect of someone who is 1) a college student and 2) many times honored scholar. Maybe he has them anyway, but we have only this input, and based on that, the conclusion that he has been ill-served by educators is the most likely and reasonable one.
They say you have one chance to make a good first impression, and that is true. Or do you deny that? Yes, if he went on the show tomorrow and completely wowed me, I would agree that my first impression was wrong. He doesn’t get that chance, and as it stands, he is not an optimistic representative of the output of our education system.
“I did not know Bush personally. I did know Tsurumi, and thought very highly of him.”
And we’ve seen the parroted nonsense you’ve produced here, so that pretty well settles that.
I wasn’t sure about you at first. I wasn’t sure about this site at first. I found this article while searching for a compelling argument against the value of secondary education based, among other reasons, upon the EPIC inanity of one Julian Batts; I was immediately drawn to the site’s borders (currently filled with Charlie Hebdo covers), but I wasn’t sure what I’d find here. Reasonable discourse full of common sense? Or liberal drivel?
I found the article itself to be written with a swift mind and a careful pen. Then, cautiously, I dove into the comments. Mind blown. Your replies are honest, well-thought, and scathing ONLY when necessary. I walk a fine, fine line between conservative and liberal (you know, the common sense line), and it’s been miserable finding a blog/site/group with the right mission in mind. You, sir, are a quality find. A treasure. Thank you.
Jack, note this, a first time commenter calling you unbiased!
Welcome to the discussions. They’re great.
Here’s a passage from a piece in the Miami Times about Julian’s Wheel of Fortune appearance :
But before that, Batts was completely lambasted by fellow contestant Shelby, who correctly read the puzzle Batts had already solved. Unfortunately, Batts, dawned in an Indiana University sweater, was unable to win that round because apparently pronunciation counts. The round would have fruitfully awarded him with not only a new car but $1 million.”
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Obviosly written by a graduate of Indiana University’s School of Journalism.
Heh heh.
http://miamitimesonline.com/news/2014/apr/12/wheel-misfortune-college-students-gameshow-debut/
I meant to start my quote at the word “But”.
Apparently pronunciation counts? This wasn’t a pronunciation problem. It was an “I can’t name the character because I have no idea who the hell he is” problem.
The character of Achilles is a basic cultural point of reference; if one has never encountered his name to the extent that it is recognizable in print, then it is likely that the other basic knowledge and information missing is massive. I read about Achilles when I was nine. There are about six movies in which he is a character, the latest with him being portrayed by Brad Pitt. If you go through life with your eyes and ears open and the intellectual curiosity of a sea sponge, you should know who Achilles is.
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And don’t forget – anyone who plays sports, even watches sports, has probably heard about Achilles tendon injuries.
The saddest part of this whole story is the fact that this kid isn’t the last of his tribe.
We have whole generations of idiot/moron students coming up behind us who were educated in the cool, edgy, progressive, touchy-feely Liberal environment.
These people, who got awards for losing, who watched their president getting a Nobel Peace Prize for nothing, are going to be your doctors, lawyers and leaders in your old age.
Won’t that just be so special?
I have worked with a number of “educated” people who leave me in shock when they display their ignorance of things that anyone claiming to be “educated” ought to know. I blame the phasing out of general education requirements at many colleges and universities as well as a diminishing interest in receiving a true liberal arts education.
And finally, Jack, I would like to remind you of The Raft of God…
I would never forget that, Patrice…
He obviously got the reference if he was able to get all of the letters right, that’s not a name you just stumble into without having heard of it. People who read a lot are more prone to mispronouncing words that they are familiar with but have only seen on the page, while people who don’t’ read as much may know proper pronunciations but are more prone to misspelling words they say but don’t see often.
And as someone who just finished a high-quality education recently, I learned about Achilles precisely once through 17.5 years of school, and that was in a course I took totally as an elective. Classic western lit SHOULD be taught more, the unfortunate truth is that it’s simply not.
I agree. I feel for the guy. I grew up poor, but I read a lot. Many, many words I had only seen on the page but never heard pronounced out loud until college or later, and I would have butchered their pronunciation too. I’m just glad my ignorance in pronunciation wasn’t televised. How often are average people sitting around discussing the Trojan War? I would wager that it isn’t often. I give him a pass on mispronouncing a word.
Concur. How many pronounce “Ceasar” correctly – Kai-zar?
In ancient Rome that’s the correct pronunciation. This ain’t that. “PareEE”? It’s an English speaking country; nothing wrong with Anglicizing foreign words. Pompous not to, in fact.
Of course, some Anglicizations don’t even operate on actual English rules; Taipei is more properly pronounced “Taibei”, but in the Wade-Giles transliteration system, ‘p’ is pronounced as ‘b’ (Honestly, that unintuitive mess of a system should have never been developed, since according to its own rules, ‘China’ would be pronounced as ‘Jina’, and ‘Jed’ would be pronounced as ‘Red’).
In modern Spain, it’s also pronounced “Kai-zar.” And since Spanish is more of a Latinate language than English is, AND we live in an increasingly Spanish-speaking country, it’s not as cut and dry as it used to be.
By the way, “pompous” is an entirely cultural perspective in this respect. Living in Europe for a time I learned that in French, Spanish, Italian and Catalan, the common words come from Latin. We think “trouble” is a simple word and “tribulations” is putting on airs. In the Romance languages, it’s exactly the opposite. If you want to be understood in a European country, think of the most complicated American word, which is probably Latin-based. That will almost always turn out to be the simple word in a Romance language. “Complication” is easily understood in Europe, whereas “drag” or “hassle” or “mess” will lead to puzzled looks. Kai-zar will be easily understood – Seize-her will not.
So “Kai-zar” is not pompous at all. It’s the preferred pronunciation in countries whose language emanated from Latin, the language of Caesar, increasingly true of the US as well.
But NOT true in the US, and indeed pompous, designed to suggest some virtue in possessing continental airs, which does not exist, and is no virtue. In the plain spoken, utilitarian USA, the polite and fair thing is to strive to be understood, even by those like Julian, who spent all these years thinking they were being educated, and were not. We still owe them the courtesy of trying to communicate, rather than inspiring awe with our erudition.
The problem is my (deliberately provocative) use of the word “correct”.
As a matter of practicality, “Seize-her” would be understood in the US far more widely than “Kai-zar”. The latter is closer to the original though, and more widely used elsewhere. “Correct” really doesn’t apply as a concept. English mangles pronunciation of foreign words, but so does every other language.
e.g. Thai – Falang – short for Falang-say, Francais. Yes, all foreigners are “French”. After all, most speak today’s lingua franca, the language of the Franks – English.
A bigger problem is that I suspect a large proportion of the US underclass has never heard of Caesar, no matter how pronounced.
Not just the “underclass” ZB. And I wouldn’t bet the mortgage on Julian, either.
Amusingly, the Brits seem to say Seize-Her as well, and even more amusingly, during my studies IN Italy (without a doubt, the DIRECT cultural descendants of Caesar, himself) I never heard a discussion on the topic pronounce his name as Kaiser…
But hey, it’s just those Dumb Rube Americans we like to look down our noses on. Christ, only 1 in 6 of them can locate the EXACT location of Ukraine on a map. And that’s what we’ll report… never mind that it was only 1 out of about 20 that were grossly off location…
I remember being perplexed at the 51st state, pronounced “Are-Kansas”
I was in my 20’s before I knew any different.
And I’ve only just now found out that Des Moines is De moin.
An interesting trivia bit to go along with Des Moines being pronounced De Moin: not so far away in the heartland, you’ll hear Des Plaines pronounced Dess-Planes. “Correct,” as you note, is a relative thing.
But Des Plaines, Ill. is “Des Planes”…go figure.
If he’s educated, at the costs of our education system and institutions, he should know the basics, or he is not, in fact, educated. He’s been alive for 20 years, is a “scholar,” and never encountered the story or the character? From about 9 on, if I read about a character with a foreign name, I sought out a source of how to pronounce it. That’s what education is supposed to teach you to do.
I think your empathy and generosity is noble; it’s also why the US population gets less literate and informed every year. And when you mispronounced a common word or two, were you eager for everyone to know about the gaffe? This is the reaction on “Jay Walking,” you know, Leno’s old bit where he asked easy historical, civics and current events questions of “educated” 20 somethings and they exhibited abject ignorance…and thought it was all hilarious. You know, I don’t recall ever “sitting around discussing” Mount Rushmore, yet I could name the men on the mountain from about 6, and Jay routinely found college students and grads who couldn’t…and giggled. Same thing? Same pass?
He very well could have encountered the story or character, we don’t know. All we know is that he did not know how to pronounce one of the characters from he story. If he had only read the story, why would he automatically know how to pronounce it correctly? There are still probably plenty of words I don’t know how to pronounce out loud, even though I’m familiar with them. I can try to take a stab at it, but I’m sure to garble some of them. While you may have the luxury of time of looking up every single word you don’t know how to pronounce, not many people do. If nothing else, how often are you going to slip such words into conversation without sounding like a pretentious prick? I think for the most part, most people really don’t need to know how to pronounce such words in their day to day lives.
And when you mispronounced a common word or two, were you eager for everyone to know about the gaffe?
I wasn’t particularly eager for everyone to know about my ignorance, no. But once it’s been televised, you can only make the best out of a bad situation at that point, I would imagine. I would hope that people would be willing to extend me grace in that situation, rather than rushing to condemn me.
He’s the victim. I’m not condemning him. He’s a disabled product of an anti-intellectual, warped culture that encourages neither knowledge, genuine education or intellectual curiosity, and we pay the price of imbedded incompetence, arrogance and ignorance every day. Poor Julian just lost a million dollars and a car. We lose, and have lost, much more.
I agree that our culture can be very anti-intellectual. Bu I’m just not sure if this is a good example of it, without knowing a lot more information. We have people on this very thread admit to not knowing how to pronounce Arkansas and Des Moines. Sometimes people simply just don’t know how to pronounce very common things. It happens, especially with words that have non-English standard pronunciations. Based off of one word, in a high stress situation, it is hard to say much more than that about the guy.
Precisely. I’d go so far as to say it’s not that he MAY have encountered the character, he MUST have encountered him- or he wouldn’t have been able to guess the right letters. But no, apparently this blog has reached the point where not knowing how to pronounce the name of a character from mythology that, while commonly known, is not actually required knowledge to function in society, somehow gets you declared ignorant to the point of a disability. One wonders how not knowing how to pronounce Achilles directly affects a business degree, but since Jack thinks it’s vital the kid’s disabled. Wow.
1. Bad, bad Luke. You know my point is that he doesn’t know who Achilles is, and has nothing to do with pronunciation.
2. You and deery are showing ignorance of how WOF works (fortunately not a life handicap). If a contestant recognizes a name at all, they usually name it before all the letters are turned.
3. This—“is not actually required knowledge to function in society”-–would indicate that you don’t comprehend the objective and value of education. That’s OK though, you have a lot of company.
4. Go ahead—you hire a guy who guesses “C” when trying to puzzle out what person ends with the undisclosed word “__ A__”. Good luck.
“Achilles” isn’t a name you stumble upon by guessing random letters. Continuing to spin and guess letters IS a valid if risky stragety to maxemize winnings, though. And I agree, people SHOULD know things like Greek Myth- but saying he’s “disabled” for not knowing it is an absurd hyperbole.
It’s hyperbole, no doubt about it. And since you figured that out, it isn’t absurd, is it? It’s a handicap, as all gaps in cultural literacy are. Is a handicap a disability?
“Achilles” isn’t a name you stumble upon by guessing random letters.”
Huh? E,I,A,H, and S are in the batch of the most common letters to guess in hangman or deciphering. L is very common too. C is the only wild shot, and a once an H is uncovered and T is eliminated, it’s easy guess too.
Of course you could stumble on Achilles guessing randomly.
Actually, I watched the clip, he really did just stumbled on to it because most of the letters appeared elsewhere.
Of course he did. That’s the proof that it wasn’t just pronunciation…if you are familiar withe show, the contestants who have to uncover all the letters before taking a guess are the ones who don’t know or recognize the answer. Admittedly, the “World’s Fastest Man” fiasco suggests that he’s just no good at the game—his favorite, now—period.
Or he had stage fright (performance anxiety).
But that wouldn’t give you wiggle room to bloviate.
“wiggle room”? Occam’s razor applies, my friend. If somebody behaves as if they don’t know something, they don’t know it, in all likelihood. Sure, it’s possible he just choked, repeatedly. There are always alternative explanations that will let you argue away any issue or problem. And we can just ignore the fact that students are paying obscene amounts of money becoming “honors” grads and graduating in a state that would have been regarded as illiterate 7o years ago. It that’s swell for you, run with it. I would rather consider the issue rather than make up reasons not to.
I think what’s saddest about this particular delusion is that its so predictable and conventional. Every disaster generates the same theory: FDR caused Pearl Harbor too, Johnson killed JFK, Stanton killed Lincoln. This one is just crazier than the rest. Tens of thousands of people involved, no good motive, and not one individual deciding to spill the beans to become a national hero-truthteller and best selling author. What are the odds?
LOL
My point was Occum’s razor.
You have this pile of BS to prove a point of belief that you hold near and dear, while I have a simple explanation.
Your not very good at this, are you? That would be why you blog, rather than work.
1. It’s Occam’s Razor. I fixed it for you.
2. I don’t know what the point is you think I hold near and dear is, but
3. Gratuitous insults rather than an argument, followed by the certified mark of a fool, “LOL” gets you banned here. Bye. You never even tried to make a valid point.
Hey Jack, I wrote a comment to you earlier but want to take it back. Your comment “3. Gratuitous insults rather than an argument, followed by the certified mark of a fool, “LOL” gets you banned here. Bye. You never even tried to make a valid point.” is very logical and put me in the same boat as Art. The ban isn’t what concerns me if at all but rather I don’t want to be an Art or Batt. I actually care to learn and adopting (or rather learn how to think more logically) the superior way of thinking of others This is the first time I visit this site. I’m not college educated and I’m an immigrant but I’ve always made an effort to learn and recognize my mistakes when they are mistakes. Anywho, I enjoy your articles even tho I don’t agree 100 percent but do agree with most. I aspire to your way of thinking. You have a new reader and thanks.
My pleasure. I rescued your comment from the spam pool; not sure how it got there. Welcome, and thanks. Your participation is valued.
Wow. Good on both of you.
As some of you surmised, Art, who was apparently trying to get banned, was. Do I really deserve this? He began by impugning the integrity of the original post, then just starts being obnoxious. Then he goes to my cherished entry in the Urban Dictionary—how many bloggers have an insult named after them?—that was put there by an angry pothead during the debate about the wisdom of legalizing drugs, as if that’s some kind of authority, or argument.
Here is the entry in the UD, by the way…
jackmarshallize(verb): to write, pontificate or act in such a manner that resembles unconscionable, sadomoralistic douchebaggerry of the very highest order.
I’m so proud.
I’m pretty sure, by the way, that Art is a lurker left over from that contentious post, and may even have been one of the many ( a record, I think) that got banned when they flipped out in a pot-fueled fury…
This post has had more than 1500 readers, and the crazies seem to start arriving about now…
We also have to look at how culture outside of schools has changed. It gets harder for educators to retain the attention of kids who spend their after school hours playing video games, etc.. I have a college student who lives with me now that epitomizes the effete lifestyle characterizing many of today’s youth: affluent family, 25 and still no degree after 7 years. doesnt work. father pays his rent and food. finishes a class and comes home to watch tv and netsurf the rest of the day with his girlfriend. Can’t be bothered to do any housework on common spaces ie mopping bathroom because “it’s not his mess.” I used to find sloth a strange addition to the 7 deadly sins but can now appreciate its addition.
It should rhyme with “juice” if you use ancient greek pronunciation anyway. Ἀχιλλεύς. Aki-loose.
Achilles – A Kill Ease is a poor but customary anglicisation.
In such cases, I’d accept pretty much any recognisable pronunciation.
Then again, I’m still not sure how to say “Des Moines”. Dem-wa?
Transliteration; miseducating people on proper pronunciations since 3200 BC.
I had a professor who insisted the correct pronunciation was “AH-sheelz”. He never seemed to mind, though, when all of his students mispronounced the name.
Yes, that’s because people could actually understand who they were referring to, unlike when he spoke the name. He’s exactly the kind of pompous ass I was discussing with Charles.
I’m wondering how the Spanish classes are going for the kid. This is a tragedy created by good legislative intentions which have paved the path to hell for him. I truly feel sorry for him. Maybe he’ll learn something useful from this experience.
In his defense, he looked pretty ashamed in the video…
This is the end. These are our voters of tomorrow. We are lost.
I watched this episode of Wheel of Fortune and cringed. I’ll give Julian a pass on “Achilles”; I loved Greek myths as a kid and it took me a while to learn how to pronounce the names. Some still stump me! The other things he missed makes me wonder how he is an honor student. The second puzzle, “World’s Fastest Man” should have been able to be solved with context clues and what the heck is a dicepin?
I think we are failing our children by not properly educating them, by not exposing them to cultures or ideas outside of what they know and not holding them and parents accountable.
Great article.
Thanks, I needed that!
Got this nice comment from someone using a fake e-mail address, so he doesn’t get posted: “Jack, you write exceptionally well. You come across as reasoned and competent in your replies. After reading the plethora of responses you’ve posted in this comment section, It’s become painfully obvious that you are in actuality, a complete moron.”
No supporting evidence cited, naturally. The 1500 views mark lifts the rock for the rude, crazies and trolls to come glorping out, it seems. I wonder why this is.? And why this, of all posts, has activated them?.
I cannot believe you people. Have any of you stopped to think that maybe…just maybe there’s something else going on…I’ve worked with children and adolescents on the spectrum and this seems like a classic case of aspergers to me…it would explain everything you brought up in your article…the fact that he isn’t embarrased, the social awkwardness, etc etc. His behavior is very typical of a high functioning kid with aspergers. I once worked with a young girl on the spectrum who was four years old and was reading at a 5th grade level. She knew words I didn’t even know…but when it came to common sense and social interaction she was lost. These comments are horrible.
Wait—the comments are horrible because they don’t include amateur long-distance diagnosis of autism based on a bad performance on a TV game show?
I don’t know the kid…no I can’t say hes’s on the spectrum…for all you and I know he could have just choked…but his behavior (how he continued to ask for the letters when anyone else would have solved the puzzle) is very similar to that of a person on the spectrum. Just the two cents of a person with a psych degree that diagnoses mental illness and pervasive developmental disorders for a living.
I’m not disputing that this is one explanation. Or he’s just not too bright and has poor cognitive skills. Which is more likely?
I agree with you Lola but you have to move it up a notch and see the bigger picture. Yes, this is a very possible explanation and I’m sure more will come but for the point Jack is trying to make explanations for Batts intellectual shortcomings are irrelevant. The problem here is how society and our institutions are pumping out ignorant, incompetent people with degrees. Let’s say he did have Asperger’s. How then did a person with Asperger’s with obvious mental deficiencies manage to become a Hudson and Holland Scholar, a Herbert Presidential Scholar and a Hutton Honors College student? There is something very wrong here and that is what Jack, I believe, is trying to address. Batt’s, student’s and really our society being the real victims of all this.
Julian is 18 years old. EIGHTEEN! Most people do not think fast under pressure and on TV none the less. He can learn from this experience and grow from it. With a good academic record, involement on campus, and the ability to articulate what he learned from all of this, he could be very marketable to employers and do great things. Cut him some slack. I hope Julian has the a lot of resilience so he can rise above all of the comments, assumptions and speculations being made about him.
“Most people do not think fast under pressure”
And, recognizing that, most people don’t put themselves where their inability to act fast under pressure will be catastrophic. he is accountable for his performance. He did, you know, take the place of another potential contestant who perhaps did have the ability to think fast under pressure.
“Cut him some slack.”
You do recognize that one reason that he honors appear out of synch with his apparent skills could well be that he has been cut nothing but slack, right?
“I hope Julian has the a lot of resilience so he can rise above all of the comments, assumptions and speculations being made about him.”
Of course. So do I.
Maybe he will also learn that you don’t put yourself on national TV without being sure that you know what you are doing. He doesn’t have to rise above any comments or assumptions here—don’t be silly. This is a blog, and an ethics blog no less—he can probably live to 100 and never have to deal with anyone who has read or posted anything here. He has to rise above his own performance on national television, just like anyone else who wants to be in the spotlight and falls on his face. And that is 100% his own doing.
Jack – there are negative comments being said about this outside of this blog. And I agree that anyone who puts themselves in the spot light could fall on their face and it is what it is. As for him going on the show 1) what an opportunity he was given and how fun and exciting! So he went for it and we now know that he can’t play Wheel of Fortune. Big deal. 2) as for going on the show – a person doesn’t know what they don’t know. How does one predict that you might suck as a contestant on a game show? 3) Although I do have issues with many things in our education system – why does that have to weigh in here? This is one teeny tiny slice of a very young person’s life. That’s it. I just don’t see where ethics are a concern here. I see your point that all we know about Julian is from this moment but why dig so deep and pick apart this young kid and analyze where his teachers failed him, etc. ? I love a forum to debate issues but I’m just not seeing a lot of empathy for a young man that sucked on a game show and is now publicly being analyzed to death on how intelligent he is, etc.
There should be nothing but empathy for him…I don’t blame Julian very much at all, but his dilemma can be a useful wakeup call. He did, after all, lose a million bucks because he never got what used to be a standard liberal arts education. That’s a pretty big answer to “So what?’ His parents, his teachers, his schools, everyone who told him he was educated when he was not are to blame far more than he is. But he also agreed to represent his school on national TV, and was woefully unprepared. That is his failure, and there are repercussions to others.
Fair statement and very well said.
I can’t believe the justifications/excuses being offered rather than admit that this kid is not educated. And why.
Imagine that it was not a TV game show but rather an employer who hired Julian based on his academic excellence only to discover that Julian was incapable of doing the job.
Isn’t that like…fraud?
Do you want Julian to be, for example, your pilot?
Your cancer surgeon?
I think you are making judgements on one life event. An employer is not going to care that he doesn’t know about Greek mythology. People say wrong things all the time – even pilots and Oncologists. Think of the stupidest thing you have ever said and imagine it going viral. That wouldn’t be a reflection of how much you know or what occupation you could excel in and certainly what kind of person you are. I found him charming and he didn’t get those academic scholarships from being stupid (quite the opposite). His adult life literally started a few months ago so of course he has a lot to learn (how to handle all the judgements from this for starters). I’m am totally rooting for this kid!
Now Bea…
“I think you are making judgements on one life event.”
Damn right. And you are making judgments about me and my blog based on one of over 4500 posts. The difference is that you have access to more data, and I don’t. If this was the only post, and you decided based on it that I was a judgmental creep and you never wanted to come here again, that would be a completely valid conclusion.
“An employer is not going to care that he doesn’t know about Greek mythology.”
Or that he doesn’t know there was a First World War. Or that he can’t come within three centuries of the date of the founding of Jamestown. Or that he can’t place Pakistan on a map, or doesn’t know who Oscar Wilde was, or name a play by Arthur Miller, or explain what happened during Prohibition or the 1968 Democratic convention, but the cumulative affect of the wide cultural literacy is an inability to think critically, make analogies, argue on Ethics Alarms, and be an effective manager, decision-maker or employee. Do you really think the post was about Achilles?
“People say wrong things all the time”
Yes, and people who do so must learn that they shouldn’t, and what the right things are. People who say the wrong things and are called “scholars” are themselves called the wrong thing.
“Think of the stupidest thing you have ever said and imagine it going viral. That wouldn’t be a reflection of how much you know or what occupation you could excel in and certainly what kind of person you are.”
Hey, I write a blog. That has happened to me, and I was accountable for it and have to prove myself. I have to prove myself every day. And those people who judge me based on that one episode will continue to do so. But I recognized it. I wasn’t proud of it. I learned from it. And you know what? There are still plenty of people who will always, always judge me on that, and only that. Luckily, that wasn’t a performance typical of my ability, knowledge or skills, but I was careless, and in my business, being careless even once has consequences.
“I found him charming and he didn’t get those academic scholarships from being stupid (quite the opposite).”
So you really think being charming should get one recognized as an outstanding scholar, do you? He probably thinks it works that way too. That’s the problem.
“His adult life literally started a few months ago so of course he has a lot to learn (how to handle all the judgements from this for starters). I’m am totally rooting for this kid!”
Me too. I’m rooting for him to overcome the handicap of negligent education and honors without justification. I’m rooting for him to overcome our society’s emphasis on diplomas and credentials over actual knowledge.
Jack – let me apologize. I have actually never commented on a blog before so I clearly have some blog etiquette to learn. My comments were made in general about all the negative things I am seeing online. I literally just stumbled upon yours and got sucked in. I guess I am coming from a place of knowing myself. I could ace world history or Greek mythology but I am horrible at retaining dates, location, names, etc. I would never apply for this show for that exact reason but I’ve had enough life experiences to learn what my strengths and weaknesses are. Part of the college experience is learning how to critically think and to figure out what excites you enough to learn and pursue. Most teenagers have not developed the skill to critically think – their brains are not even fully developed until about 24! That’s why I say cut the kid some slack.
No apology necessary! I am grateful for your views, which are an important set of points to have in the discussion.
People are kind, which is fortunate, the Golden Rule applies, he is young, we all want to believe the best, life is unfair and we feel everyone deserves a second chance. Obviously he has plenty of time to fix things, but only if he confronts the issue. What is more likely is that kindness, compassion, optimism and all those good things will conspire to convince him that the episode is meaningless, who cares about Achilles, and he’ll become one of the many, many good but dangerous and destructive people in our society who think they are more able and skilled than they are.
I’m a senior at IU majoring in Biochemistry in the Hutton Honor’s College and am also from the same area he’s originally from, held to the same school standards and have to say that there’s no way “Achilles” hasn’t found it’s way into his curriculum at some point.
We’re expected to support him and be encouraging, because he’s a fellow student, but I don’t think it’s possible, given the negative association this will bring the university. This article is right on the money. A severe lack of literacy exists in this individual, proven multiple times within one 30-minute period, televised nationally.
And I’m extremely confused why he expresses no embarrassment, and is instead, exuding confidence in his poor performance. I have to agree with everyone so far, that one’s status in a scholar program does not make that person “educated”, by any means, but rather that person looked good on paper at the time of application and are now wrongly grouped in the same category as more qualified people, who are more well-rounded and apparently know who “A-Chill-Us” was. With the humiliation aside, I think my favorite wrong answer was “On-the-spot dicespin (decision)”, which wasn’t mentioned here. Regardless, he walks away 12 grand richer, which should be the amount of the fine he deserves, if defaming your educational institution was considered a punishable offense.
I think your post is worth at least $12,000 in defending your college’s good name.