Morning Ethics Warm-Up: 7/24/17

Good Morning…

…and gee, it’s good to be back home! You have no idea how good it is.

1. ARRRGH! I returned to Ethics Alarms with 6 pending comments, and I want to apologize profusely for the back-up, especially to poor Paul Schlecht, whose avatar inexplicably makes WordPress hold every single one of his comments  in moderation until I rescue it. Only one post got up yesterday, and that was a close call: I was in resort/airport/travel Hell yesterday in Daytona  Beach, then Charlotte, pretty much from the moment I got my wake-up call at 6 AM to when my plane finally arrived at D.C.’s Reagan National Airport at just short of 1 am. today.

At least my law firm retreat seminar on legal ethics and technology was lively, but now I am way behind on posts, and also not exactly at the top of my game. Again, my apologies to all. And I’ve got to get a new laptop without a jumping cursor and that doesn’t crash my browser every 20 minutes or so.

2. I mentioned last week that the New York Times Sunday Review section is a weekly exercise in anti-President Trump porn. I couldn’t find a Sunday Times yesterday, so as a test, I’m going to open the copy my wife saved for me and look at the section now.

Let’s see…well the above the fold story is a feature about “why women aren’t CEOs.” The anti-Trump shot doesn’t come until the last paragraph, where the author, Susan Chira, couldn’t help herself from quoting Hillary Clinton as she blamed misogyny for her defeat. The Deplorables, you know. The second story on the front page is a mocking piece by a British historian, about a new Trump Doctrine, but with the term in scare quotes. How dare the President stand up for Western Civilization, we are asked to consider? This author, Stephen Wertheim, claims that the Trump administration’s problems with Iran, North Korea and China are based in racism and religious bias.  (Obama’s problems with the same nations were, presumably, based on a sincere concern for peace.) The  essay is also fairly anti-American, but concludes with the insult that the problem with the President isn’t so much what he does as who he is.

This is essentially the argument of “the resistance.” You know. Bigotry.

Let’s see—that piece took up all of page two, so we move on to page three. Two op-eds are there, one again mocking the ex-press secretary Sean Spicer, which the Times editorial board had already done, and the other, by Frank Bruni, attacking Jared Kushner. It closes with this, in part:

His counsel to Trump has been flawed, to say the least. He reportedly lobbied for the firing of James Comey, which didn’t turn out so well….I hear that he feels persecuted. Wronged. In that regard, too, he’s like his father-in-law, though Trump wears his self-pity, fury and ruthlessness right out front, for the whole world to see.

This is the company line. Actually, firing Comey turned out spectacularly well: the President was able to get rid of a highly placed leaker who had proven himself incompetent and untrustworthy. Bruni and the Times feel it was a mistake because the completely legal, appropriate, indeed overdue dismissal brought down the ire of the news media determined to get rid of the President. Message: When will you learn that we call the shots, you fool?

In fact, the President and his entire family have been persecuted by the Times from the very beginning, in obvious contrast to the news media’s disgusting fawning over the Clintons and Obamas, and even their chilly respect for the Bushes.

On to page four! Oh! Here’s a cartoon of the President as Donald Duck, and an op-ed by a New York City mother about how embarrassing it is to have a toddler who–The Horror!—likes the President of the United States! Beneath that screed, with a picture of Don, Jr., is an op-ed attacking another member of the President’s family in a piece about “men who never grow up.” The Trump boys are lumped in with Billy Bush, Ryan Lochte (the moronic Olympic swimmer), the fortunate college rapist Brock Turner, and the police officers who shot Tamir Rice!  Funny, the nation’s most prominent perpetual adolescent, who embarrassed the whole nation by using the White House as his passion pit, is never mentioned.

The non-Trump stories then take over for a few pages, and we’re finally at the editorial page. Two of the three editorials attack the President’s policies as the embodiment of evil: one condemns the very concept of the Election Integrity Commission— did you know that trying to find out how much actual voter fraud there is constitutes voter suppression?—and the other uses the President’s border wall plan as a prop to level general insults.  The rest of that page is devoted to a special selection of Letters to the Editor critical of…Donald Trump! Every one, all ten. You’re right, NYT, the paper doesn’t reflect this opinion thoroughly enough. On the facing page, two of the three op-eds consist of more Trump bashing. Maureen Dowd is one, but to be fair, all she does is level snark at everyone. The other is a second attack on Jared Kushner, because one per section is not enough.

The total: Nine Trump-hate pieces, plus ten anti-Trump letters, and not a single supportive word, balanced analysis, or defense. And the Sunday Review section is like this every week.

3. I can’t believe I’m writing this. The Discovery Channel’s always idiotic and often misleading “Shark Week” told audiences that Olympic Gold  Medal swimmer Michael Phelps would be racing a Great White Shark in the ocean. Admittedly, most potential viewers should be smart enough to figure out that there had to be a catch (no pun intended) despite the misleading title “Phelps vs. Shark: Great Gold vs Great White.”  They should be, but we know they aren’t, based on the other stupid shows they fall for on the network, and also because there have been three “Sharknado” movies with a fourth on the way. That Discovery Channel title is a lie: Phelps never was in the water with a shark; he never saw a shark; he never raced a shark. He “raced’ a computer-generated shark that was put into the film after Phelps was safe and dry. Some of Phelps’ gullible fans are annoyed.

They should be. On the other hand, they are morons. The entire exercise should have taken about 6 seconds, the amount of time it takes to say “White sharks swim faster than humans, even Olympic champions. Bye.”

4. Why was the story about the five Florida teens who mocked a drowning man and never called for rescuers so thoroughly publicized, while this story of two weeks ago, also out of Florida, was relatively ignored? (At least I missed it, and I look for encouraging incidents like this.) In fact, why wasn’t this story recalled in reports of that outrage, and compared to it, so we wouldn’t lose all hope?

When beachgoers on a Panama City beach in Florida ( on the Gulf of Mexico) realized that a group of swimmers were in danger of drowning after they were caught in a powerful riptide far off shore, they organized a human chain of more than 80 people to rescue them.

“It was a wave of humanity that brings some things back into focus, that maybe we haven’t lost all hope in this world,” said one of the rescue’s organizers, Derek Simmons. At first people were reluctant to participate, fearing they would be caught in the same riptide. But Simmons and others kept urging a mass effort.  “We were yelling at the beach, we need more people,” he told reporters..

When enough beachgoers joined the chain, Simmons and his wife used their body boards to reach the group, which included a young family with two small boys and their grandmother, who were attempting to keep afloat. The couple first handed the children to the end of the chain, which by then had grown to about 80 people, then the rest. The rescue of the nine people took about an hour.

The lifeguards stationed on  the beach had finished for the evening when the crisis occurred.  A spokesman for the Panama Beach police department said that two of its officers were present throughout and tried to prevent the chain from forming, and urged the group to wait for a rescue boat. It’s a good thing the bathers ignored the police, for the boat did not reach the scene in time.

After the rescue, everyone who had been part of the chain cheered, hugged each other, and delivered high fives.

The question is: Which story is the real America, that wonderful response in Panama City, or this one, in Cocoa Beach?

112 Comments

Filed under Arts & Entertainment, Character, Ethics Alarms Award Nominee, Ethics Heroes, Ethics Train Wrecks, Journalism & Media, U.S. Society

112 responses to “Morning Ethics Warm-Up: 7/24/17

  1. 1) I suspect Paul’s avatar is held in moderation because it contains detectable words. WP probably holds those in limbo until the moderator decides the words are not in violation of the moderator’s standards for avatars.

  2. “I want to apologize profusely for the back-up, especially to poor Paul Schlecht, whose avatar inexplicably makes WordPress hold every single one of his comments in moderation until I rescue it.”

    No worries Jack, having been assured I’m not on “Double Secret Probation” is good enough for me.

    The avatar is the creative genius of a regular EA commenter who, while I’m honored to call him a friend, still prefers anonymity.

    However; Ulysses Everett McGill (George Clooney in “O Brother Where Art Thou”) would describe him as “red and scaly with a bifurcated tail, and he carries a hay fork.”

    Reckon the Devil’s in the details…?

    • O, I Love a Good Brother Reference:

      Tommy Johnson: Oh, no. No, sir. He’s white, as white as you folks, with empty eyes and a big hollow voice. He likes to travel around with a mean old hound. That’s right.

      jvb

      • There’s more:

        Pete: The Preacher said it absolved us.

        Ulysses Everett McGill: For him, not for the law. I’m surprised at you, Pete, I gave you credit for more brains than Delmar.

        Delmar O’Donnell: But they was witnesses that seen us redeemed.

        Ulysses Everett McGill: That’s not the issue Delmar. Even if that did put you square with the Lord, the State of Mississippi’s a little more hard-nosed.

        [laughs]

        Ulysses Everett McGill: Baptism! You two are just dumber than a bag of hammers! s

  3. Other Bill

    Last line typo? Tampa? Cocoa Beach? Or is there a third incident in Florida?

  4. Opal

    My speculation on #4 is that:
    a. It doesn’t play to the doom and gloom, we’re all lost because of President Trump;
    b. It took place in what many call the Alabama part of Florida and “those people are deplorables”;
    The crowd was an interesting mix of people working together. It was almost an afterschool special in its diversity. Again, it doesn’t reinforce a or b, so it’s ignored.

    • “It took place in what many call the Alabama part of Florida and ‘those people are deplorables’ ”

      Veddy nterestink observation, and they call ’em other such things too.

      Remember the 01/2012 exchange between Politico’s Jonathan Martin and MSNBC’s Chuck Todd: “Chuck, a lot of the counties in the Panhandle, in north Florida, the cracker counties, if you will…more resemble Georgia and Alabama than they do Florida.”

      https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/01/31/politicos_jonathan_martin_calls_conservative_florida_voters_cracker_counties.html

      Highfreakin’larious back-peddling/side-stepping ensued.

      A year-n-a-half later, Trayvon Martin pal Rachel Jeantel testified that Martin referred to “White” Hispanic George Zimmerman a “creepy-ass cracker,”

      To which Über Lefty moron Tommy Christopher jumps the shark by saying: “although the term (cracker) is derogatory in much of the country, in Florida, it’s a source of pride.” It symbolizes a “rich cowboy heritage.”

      http://www.mediaite.com/online/cracker-means-something-entirely-different-in-florida-a-source-of-pride/

      Yeah right; anyone with any knowledge of the history of poor Southern Whites knows otherwise.

      • John Billingsley

        My wife told me of an incident that occurred when her family moved to Miami after WW II when she was in about the 6th grade. She referred to someone as a cracker and received a quick comeuppance from her father who admonished her to never use that word to refer to anyone again.

    • John Billingsley

      We who live in this area generally refer to it as the Redneck Riviera although some prefer to call it Lower Alabama (I think they are all people who moved here from Alabama). Most of the people here do fall into the “basket of deplorables” and are damn proud of it.

      • Pennagain

        Now I’m totally confused. My first acquaintance with tetchy southern feelings (y’know, northerners routinely insult each other — and are damn proud of it!) was a careless use of the word “cracker”. Said to a good friend of several years, an otherwise self-controlled, non-confrontational native of Birmingham, A . . . The “C” word was in reference to someone else, not to him. He insisted I pull the car off the highway down the next available exit ramp (we were only two exits from our destination) and stop at the first gas station, where he proceeded to give me a lecture in unbelievably Hollywood-antebellum tones (his accent was generally impeccable mid-Western) consisting of one point: crackers are from Georgia.

        Not that I intend to ever use the word again — just Ritz wafers for me, thanks! — but is there a correct geography for southern slander?

  5. “Susan Chira, couldn’t help herself from quoting Hillary Clinton as she blamed misogyny for her defeat.”

    Sheesh, rumors of that horse’s beating death have been exaggerated!

    Even democrat homer extraordinaire Chuck Schumer is allowing himself to be dragged kickin’ & screamin’ to a fact-based reality.

    In Saturday’s WaPo: “When you lose to somebody who has 40 percent popularity, you don’t blame other things – Comey, Russia – you blame yourself,”

  6. E2 (nee Elizabeth I)

    Thanks so much for depressing me for the rest of the day. Now I will avoid print and electronic news, and try to get on with my life. See the “critics who produce nothing” quote from my fave, TR,

  7. Steve-O-in-NJ

    2) You might as well not even bother picking up the NYT, Jack, its position on the President can be summed up as “We hate Trump. Trump bad.” I don’t know if I would describe their approach to the Bushes as “chilly respect,” maybe it was that following 9/11 and during the Persian Gulf War, but during the struggle to clean up Katrina and after the economic collapse of 1991 it was thinly-veiled contempt. That aside, my main point is that at this point everyone who has a reasonable degree of brainpower knows the Times’ views and knows where the paper is coming from. Their approach isn’t going to change.

    The Times is like your tiresome liberal friend who this time last year wouldn’t shut up about how Hilary was on a glide path into the White House, then wouldn’t shut up about how we had to get the electors to change their minds, we have to abolish the electoral college, beware the Jill Stein recounts from the election to Christmas, and now won’t shut up about how awful Trump is and how that smoking gun tying him to Russia and impeachment are just around the corner. I was going to say your tiresome liberal cousin, but that doesn’t really fit, because you can’t completely ditch a family member, but no one is putting a gun to your head to read the Times, just as you are free to disassociate yourself from a friend who has become annoying.

    The fact of the matter is that the one saving grace of the Times was that it carried the full text of speeches, treaties, etc. It’s no longer necessary to read the times to get those since you can get them, often shortly after their delivery, online. It’s just like you put up with your tiresome liberal friend because she makes awesome cookies, but now the local bake shop is selling the same exact cookies, or you’ve acquired the recipes. It’s no longer necessary to put up with your friend’s tiresome liberal blather to get your chocolate chip bar or lemon duster fix, so you start letting her calls go to voicemail, replying to texts and emails later and in fewer words, being unavailable for social events, and so on, until she gets the point. Or, if you’re brave enough, you just tell her straight out, “I put up with you for the cookies, but I don’t need to now. I can’t deal with your constant liberal garbage. Please leave me alone.”

    Let your friend serve her cookies to her like-minded friends who will just nod like bobbleheads and occasionally interject “Absolutely positively,” and “totally,” whenever she utters a particularly scathing point about the President, and let the Times sit on the stand unbought. You don’t need either.

  8. JP

    4. I shared this story with you last week under one of the morning warm ups. I said you needed a feel good story and maybe they were ethic heroes. The next day you posted s story about a dog and deer and said two people commented the dog was an ethics hero though you thought ethics had nothing to do with it. I just assumed you assumed I was talking about that story and let it drop. As far as why the other story has more traction I would guess it fits the nation of assholes narrative. Howver, I read the first online and the second on your blog so to me the people saving others is the bigger story.

    • It is. Thanks: I’m sorry I missed your tip: I didn’t check the link. Please send those alerts to my e-mail—I get backed up there too, but I eventually check all the links.

      • JP

        It’s alright. I assume you are a pretty busy guy. Frankly, I can’t understand how you do what you do and still find time to post a few 2000-4000 post every day. I have a lot of questions, and I don’t want to overburden you. I already sent you one about the Charlie Gard family being giving US residency status and I’m sending you another one about Mastercard’s working with the Standup to Cancer Fund.

        • Charlie Gard family released a statement that they will no longer pursue the legal fight to get their baby boy help from the several sources that have offered.

          Their statement, which includes clear insinuations of the Gard family’s disgust with the legal system, seems to have those sections heavily edited out of media reporting. But it is still early in reporting. Hopefully that will change.

        • Wild quiz time:

          In this situation, where their baby boy was essentially imprisoned by the system in the hospital, and the family KNEW of an easy to reach hospital and someone willing to help transport the boy to that hospital, if they saw an opening to move, are they obligated by nature to walk in, take their son out, and move him to the other hospital?

          If they are willing to accept the backlash of their government, my *gut* says yes, they need to break their son out.

          • JP

            I saw that, but I was looking at it from our immigration point of view. Was it right for the senators to offer it to them in the first place? Clearly, plenty of people have problems that they can not handle in their country. It is a reason a vast number of those people come to the US. Does that mean we should just grant them citizenship?

            • Grandstanding on the part of the Senators. The burden of government ‘charity’ is that you can’t legally limit it. Anyone with a similar hardship ought then be given the exact same offer. Private charity is different of course. I can say “sorry, they asked first and I only have this much to give”.

              Now clearly, as international relations go, sometimes you can make special pleading arguments if you are trying to send an international message. But I don’t think England is exactly an appropriate context. But who knows. I haven’t pondered it from that angle yet.

              • That being said…offering “resident” status, if they wanted to open that can of worms, would have to be a highly supervised and heavily caveated “residency”….with an eye towards: as soon as your problem is solved, you need to head on back or start a legal immigration process.

                But I think it opens issues more convoluted than is conducive to an easy answer…

  9. I should have mentioned the lesson of the Panama City rescue: there you have the power of leadership, and why it is essential. If just one of hose 5 teens in Cocoa Beach had said, “Hey…we can’t just stand here, how do we save that guy?” it might have been an entirely different story.

    • If just one of hose 5 teens in Cocoa Beach had said, “Hey…we can’t just stand here, how do we save that guy?” it might have been an entirely different story.

      I would not count on that… it looks like they really did not care if the guy died. And none in the group would have risked being mocked by suggesting a rescue.

      • I think it’s a fair definitional argument.

        In this case it’s a True Scotsman argument.

        None of those boys were leaders. If even one had been a leader, they would have tried. That none of them tried, implies none of them were leaders.

        Of course you could claim it’s a No True Scotsman argument. But you’d have to settle on the definition of “leader”.

  10. luckyesteeyoreman

    Jack: Are you going to change your blog’s side banners soon?
    (background graphics…whatever the term is)
    They are looking too much like visual aids that the NY Times – “not my newspaper” – would run when advertising itself.

    • True—then again, the refusal of the Democratic Party an the news media to accept the election results and to try to use illicit means, conspiracy theories, legal nonsense and propaganda to reverse them remains the ongoing ethics story of the decade.

  11. JP

    In related news: drunk girl kills her own sister in a car crash. Films the death. Says she isn’t sorry.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4724352/Drunk-driver-live-streams-Instagram-crash-kills-sister.html

    • That smells of “more to this story than we know yet”.

      • JP

        Well, I’ll admit in the story it is unclear what she isn’t sorry for doing. I think she isn’t sorry for filming it. Better than killing her sister, but still reprehensible.

        • She was hammered at the time no?

          My hyper-wild imagination at the moment is conjuring up a notion that her sister may have already been dead and the crash, though risky, is a cover…

          I wonder if they will autopsy the girl?

  12. “The question is: Which story is the real America, that wonderful response in Panama City, or this one, in Cocoa Beach?”

    Both, always, to a degree. I think, whereas we’ve done an exceedingly good job acculturating people to individually go out of their way to help those in need, I think we are numbing people to the needs of others as our society embraces a more hedonistic worldview.

    The latter, increasingly, is my gut notion. But, there is also a memetic claim that:

    Hard times make tough people, tough people make good times, good times make weak people, weak people make hard times.

    We’re at a society crux. A turning of worldviews. I think the value of human life being held at a pinnacle is and has been eroded severely in our latest turn of values. Without going full Jeremiad (an oft lampooned attitude), would anyone say that a set of teens from yesteryear WOULD be just as unlikely to render aid to a drowning man as a set of teens from the modern day?

    We’ll make the argument that “hey, these are just kids, their sense of duty isn’t fully developed yet”. But if one can reasonably say that NO, back “in the day” a set of teens would have rendered aid, and with vigor, then there is a burden, somewhere, to explain, what has changed in the raising of our youths?

    “Our behavior is different. How often have you seen a headline like this?–TWO DIE ATTEMPTING RESCUE OF DROWNING CHILD. If a man gets lost in the mountains, hundreds will search and often two or three searchers are killed. But the next time somebody gets lost just as many volunteers turn out.

    Poor arithmetic, but very human. It runs through all our folklore, all human religions, all our literature–a racial conviction that when one human needs rescue, others should not count the price.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers

    I think Heinlein was onto something about gut instinctive notions about rushing to the aid of our neighbors. I don’t think he’s accurate that ALL cultures have consistently taught this. I think we also have the burden to psychologically describe who we consider to be “our neighbors” if we hope to reinculcate these values among our citizens.

    Jack makes a valid point that, in the instance of the 80 saving the drowning family, that leadership makes a difference. It does.

    So, I think both instances are who we really are…currently. I mixed bag of noble humans, humans who could be noble if spurred, and wretches. The question is, what are we doing for or to our wretches to get them out of that miserable state of abject self-centeredness? And of course, if this mixed bag is one in transition where the value of human life is being eroded, how do we reinvigorate that value…what institutions and traditions need to be reassessed?

    “A spokesman for the Panama Beach police department said that two of its officers were present throughout and tried to prevent the chain from forming, and urged the group to wait for a rescue boat.”

    “In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.”

    -CS Lewis

    • wyogranny

      I have no idea why, but that CS Lewis quote brought tears to my eyes. Thank you.

    • “Hard times make tough people, tough people make good times, good times make weak people, weak people make hard times.”

      If that is your original, kudos, but in any case, thanks for that.

      • It’s not original. It’s a meme that’s been floating around the internet for a while, though I only recently saw it. As memes go, they are hyper-simplified and un-nuanced. But have a degree of truth to them, the question is, is the meme more misleading and more confusing than it is clarifying?

        • That meme has a “vector” built into it, which to me, makes it more clarifying and less confusing than many other memes I have paid attention to. You are probably familiar with the “Sow a thought, reap an act” summary of behavioral progression and consequences. In relating types of people to types of times, that meme you shared runs well in parallel to that sow-reap progression – simplistically, no doubt, but nonetheless “on track” in a way that would be useful for educating on the rise and fall of empires.

      • I have already stolen it, tex, as it is the most pithy assertion of observed truth of an aspect of human nature I have come across in years.

        It goes along with ‘the third generation loses the vision and thus the progress made’

  13. “At least my law firm retreat seminar on legal ethics and technology was lively, but now I am way behind on posts, and also not exactly at the top of my game. “

    If you ever want to save time proof-reading while you move on to the next post, I don’t mind doing a once or twice over for spell check and grammar…

    My fees can’t be beaten.

    • Don’t take my own typos as evidence against an ability to proof-read when I actually do proof-read. Never judge a barber by his haircut! My burden, is that with my own posts, I pull the trigger more often without even doing a once over.

  14. VPJ

    ” This author, Stephen Wertheim, claims that the Trump administration’s problems with Iran, South Korea and China are based in racism and religious bias”

    I thought we were pretty good with South Korea. Thought the guy in the North was a bit of a twit.

  15. valkygrrl

    Jack any plans to post about the speech at the Boy Scout jamboree today?

    • Chris

      The media is being so unfair about it.

    • Maybe tomorrow. Boy Scouts saved my Dad’s life, and is indirectly responsible for my absorbing the values that made me an ethicist. Scouting has done a lot of good things and saved many boys, and the Left’s determination to destroy the organization because they were slow to accept gays was classic progressive warped priorities. Obama was disgraceful to shun them, but it was typical of him. Yes, the organization is an anachronism now, sadly. Trump’s comments were classless and overly political, but you can’t blame the Scouts for cheering. Naturally, the liberals are back to Scout-bashing and calling them Nazis and Trump Hitler. I can’t keep writing about every Gotcha.

      • valkygrrl

        You’ll write about whatever you choose, of course.

        I asked because this isn’t every gotcha. He was addressing children. The scouts weren’t wrong to have him there, assuming they didn’t know in advance the content of his remarks. Having POTUS, any POTUS, show up and say something about being good students, good neighbors, and trying to always do the right thing is a boon for any youth organization and a memory the children can carry with them.

        But then POTUS has to cooperate. This one has so little regard, or so little self-control that after today, no responsible, no ethical, youth organization can send him an invitation. That’s sad for the kids and sadder for the country.

        As for the cheering. I can blame the scouts. They should have sensed something was wrong. They should have stared at him in silent horror for trying to hold an adult political rally. They could have shown their lessons on good citizenship by not providing positive reinforcement to overt politicization, a hijacking, of what was supposed to be a celebration of all the things they consider good.

        • As for the cheering. I can blame the scouts. They should have sensed something was wrong. They should have stared at him in silent horror for trying to hold an adult political rally. They could have shown their lessons on good citizenship by not providing positive reinforcement to overt politicization, a hijacking, of what was supposed to be a celebration of all the things they consider good.

          THAT’s unfair, He’s not only THE President, he’s scouting’s honorary President. They’d cheer him whatever he said.

          I said Trump’s remarks were classless and inappropriate. They usually are. It’s just silly to go nuts over every example.

      • Chris

        Wait, Obama “shunned” the Boy Scouts? In what way? A Google search turns up several images of Obama meeting with the Scouts.

        You know, I really thought my original comment was unfair snark after I posted it. But I guess it was more apt than I thought.

        • valkygrrl

          Apparently having a scheduling conflict and sending a pre-recorded address in lieu of attending the 100’th anniversary jamboree is rank villainy.

          I wouldn’t call that shunning, but you know how it is. Trump is the one who’s treated so unfairly. *eyeroll*

          • Obama was President for 8 years, V. he had many other opportunities to give the Scouts basic respect. A scheduling conflict was also his excuse for not attending the Charlie Hebdo march, along with other world leaders who gave a damn.

            When a President wants to attend something, they can attend it.

        • All of those photos are of individual scout troops meeting the President at the oval Office. He had little choice in the matter: the President is always the honorary president of the BSA. I didn’t say he snubbed them: refusing that honorary position would have been a political risk. Nonetheless, while Presidents have always moved heaven and earth to get to the jamborees, Obama just sent a video. Trump is right: the Democrats were down on scouting, as were many of their tribes—women and gays especially. So he was cool. Nobody was fooled, especially the Scouts. My family noted it at the time.

          Luckily my Dad was dead by then.

          • Chris

            No, you didn’t say he “snubbed them,” you said he “shunned them,” which is much more extreme and inaccurate.

            Are you sure other presidents “moved Heaven and earth” to attend the Jamboree? That also sounds extreme.

            Did you hear the cheering? The chants of “USA” after Trump promised to repeal Obamacare? No, the Scouts could have clapped politely at appropriate moments, and not fallen into the trap of Trump turning their celebration of their apolitical organization into a political rally of the kind they are not allowed to hold.

            No one is asking you to “go nuts” over anything. But you have responded to valky bringing this up by primarily criticizing a) Obama and b) the media, neither of whom are at fault in this incident, while reserving your critiques of Trump to no more than a sentence and a half. This is bias, Jack.

            • valkygrrl

              It’s also whataboutism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

              President Obama is not accused of turning a scout jamboree into a political rally. Nor would any accusation of indifference on Obama’s part change the flavor of Trumps actions.

              • Chris

                It also almost seems like the argument is “Not showing up at the Boy Scouts Jamboree is worse than showing up and using it to brag about your electoral win and to get the kids to boo the former president.”

                I hope that’s not the argument, but based on the tone and the time spent on each issue, it seems like it is.

                • Assisting ideologues in a long term effort to destroy a worthy, though flawed, cultural force for core ethical values is, in fact, far worse than any single episode of bad taste and exploitation. Absolutely. And obviously, except to the pre-biased.

                  • Chris

                    Assisting ideologues in a long term effort to destroy a worthy, though flawed, cultural force for core ethical values is, in fact, far worse than any single episode of bad taste and exploitation. Absolutely. And obviously, except to the pre-biased.

                    Please tell me–what did Obama do to help “destroy” the BSA? Not showing up at the Jamboree can’t possibly be the sole thing you’re basing this on, otherwise Nixon, Carter and Reagan are all guilty of trying to destroy the institution as well.

                    • Of course, the Scouts wee not under assault until Obama’s administration. Thus his support or lack of it had more effect and significance. The Scouts’ participation is in freefall, which is generally cheered on the Left. It may have declined inevitably anyway: the idea that there are such things as manly virtues is openly derided now. But Obama facilitated, and intended to.

                    • Chris

                      Of course, the Scouts wee not under assault until Obama’s administration. Thus his support or lack of it had more effect and significance. The Scouts’ participation is in freefall, which is generally cheered on the Left. It may have declined inevitably anyway: the idea that there are such things as manly virtues is openly derided now. But Obama facilitated, and intended to.

                      You have to give more evidence of this. Not attending the Jamboree (he sent a video of himself in his stead) is not enough to help “destroy” an institution, and it isn’t evidence that one is trying to do that. This is at least a big a leap as anything liberals are saying about Donald Trump and Russia.

                      And of course, Trump’s performance at this Jamboree is much more destructive to the Scouts’ reputation as an ethical organization which promotes strong leadership qualities than simple non-attendance by Obama.

                    • valkygrrl

                      In what universe is co-opting the jamboree to air personal and political grievances considered support?

                      the idea that there are such things as manly virtues is openly derided now.

                      I’ll be happy this day, and for all days to come, to deride the idea that there’s any virtue or lack thereof specifically tied to having a penis.

                    • Well, I can write my name in the snow… if I can find any snow…

                      Of course, that may not be considered a virtue by many… just sayin’

                    • Fake News:

                      Nixon:

                      As vice pres­i­dent, Richard Nixon spoke at the nation­al jam­borees held at Irvine Ranch in Cal­i­for­nia in 1953 and at Pennsylvania’s Val­ley Forge State Park in 1957. Then as pres­i­dent in 1971, Nixon host­ed the first Nation­al Explor­er Pres­i­dents’ Con­gress on the White House lawn.

                      Jimmy Carter was active in scouting personally, which is the best testimonial of all. He was an Explor­er Advi­sor and Scout­mas­ter in Troop and Post 25. In 1956, while their son was a Cub Scout, he and his wife served as Cub­mas­ter and Den Moth­er in pack 25. All three of their sons were Scouts.

                      You’re right about Reagan.

                    • Chris

                      Fake News:

                      Nixon:

                      As vice pres­i­dent, Richard Nixon spoke at the nation­al jam­borees held at Irvine Ranch in Cal­i­for­nia in 1953 and at Pennsylvania’s Val­ley Forge State Park in 1957. Then as pres­i­dent in 1971, Nixon host­ed the first Nation­al Explor­er Pres­i­dents’ Con­gress on the White House lawn.

                      …So Nixon did not attend a Jamboree as president, which is the issue we’re discussing. My statement was not “fake news.”

                      Jimmy Carter was active in scouting personally, which is the best testimonial of all.

                      Obama was a Boy Scout. Trump was not. You are disproving your own case.

                    • Sneaky: “Barack Obama was not a part of the Boy Scouts of America; rather he was a member of Gerakan Pramuka, the Indonesian Scout Association, and he reached the equivalent of Cub Scout.”

                      The organization at issue is the Boy Scouts of America. You know, the one where there is no “dog cooking” merit badge, and the one that Trump was appearing before. I’m pretty sure Trump would not have referenced US politics if he were speaking before Gerakan Pramuka, but you never know.

                      It’s a very different organization, with different rules and principles.

                    • Meaning Chris lied, outright, with malice aforethought, over a minor unneeded point in a discussion. We want him to be better than that, as that tactic is a progressive hallmark.

                      Notice the progressive tactic that started this rabbit trail: nit pick a minor point and make it the topic, while avoiding the issue that the BSA under Obama’s watch was attacked shamelessly by progressives. This point is undisputed, and thus we have to divert to a minor point and waste energy until we forget the original assertion.

                      Straight out of Alinsky

                    • Chris

                      slick, I was just on my way to apologize to Jack for the error when I saw your comment.

                      Tex is right–that was an unfair response. When you get things wrong I assume that you are misinformed, not intentionally lying. I’d appreciate the same consideration from you.

                    • valkygrrl

                      No slick, the shameless attacks on Obama are an attempt to avoid the issue that Trump turned the boy scout jamboree into a political rally.

                    • Wild over-exaggeration. It was no big deal, and wouldn’t be with any other President. The Democrats politicized scouting; it’s hypocritical for them to be shocked—shocked—that anyone would bring politics into the Boy Scouts. Really–the Democrats really think they can impeach this guy over style, rhetoric and bad taste. Talk about a flat learning curve.

                    • Here’s the actual speech. After all the hyper-ventilating, I expected to read a mostly political speech. It wasn’t. It wasn’t even close. He gave a shot to Obama…petty, classless, but that was the most inappropriate part of the speech. He talked about repealing Obamacare—the Horror. He mentioned fake news. Mostly he talked about working, fighting the odds, persevering and succeeding, and never quitting. He’s still a good example of those things. It was a typical, improvised Trump speech of the sort he delivers when he senses that the crowd is with him.

                      So..

                      …it wasn’t a political speech. It was an inspirational speech with a few interjected political comments.
                      …Trump’s comments were upbeat and the political shots were quick and tangential
                      …the news media was outraged because the Scouts were supportive and enthusiastic. How dare they!
                      …it was ticked off because Trump slammed Obama.
                      …it was mostly outraged that the speaker was Donald Trump.

                      There was nothing Trump said, political or non-political, that justifies calling this a Hitler Youth rally. That slur is 100X worse than the worst Trump interjection. Reading the speech, I realized that this was just another hyped narrative with little substance. Stupidly, I believed the media reports. When will I learn?

                      Go ahead, read it. You should feel ridiculous for believing this was some kind of outrage.

                      AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!

                      TRUMP: Thank you, everybody. Thank you very much. (Applause.) I am thrilled to be here. Thrilled. (Applause.) And if you think that was an easy trip, you’re wrong, but I am thrilled — 19th Boy Scout Jamboree — wow — and to address such a tremendous group. Boy, you have a lot of people here. The press will say it’s about 200 people. (Laughter.) It looks like about 45,000 people. You set a record today. (Applause.) You set a record. That’s a great honor, believe me.

                      Tonight, we put aside all of the policy fights in Washington, D.C. — you’ve been hearing about with the fake news and all of that. (Applause.) We’re going to put that aside. And instead we’re going to talk about success, about how all of you amazing young Scouts can achieve your dreams. What to think of — what I’ve been thinking about — you want to achieve your dreams. I said, who the hell wants to speak about politics when I’m in front of the Boy Scouts? Right? (Applause.)

                      There are many great honors that come with the job of being President of the United States, but looking out at this incredible gathering of mostly young patriots — mostly young — I’m especially proud to speak to you as the honorary President of the Boy Scouts of America. (Applause.)

                      AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!

                      TRUMP: You are the young people of character and integrity who will serve as leaders in our communities, and uphold the sacred values of our nation.

                      I want to thank Boy Scouts President Randall Stephenson, Chief Scout Executive Michael Surbaugh, Jamboree Chairman Ralph de la Vega, and the thousands of volunteers who have made this a life-changing experience for all of you, and when they asked me to be here I said absolutely, yes. (Applause.)

                      Finally, and we can’t forget these people, I especially want to salute the moms and the dads and troop leaders who are here tonight. (Applause.) Thank you for making scouting possible. Thank you, mom and dad — troop leaders.

                      When you volunteer for the Boy Scouts, you are not only shaping young lives, you are shaping the future of America. (Applause.) The United States has no better citizens than its Boy Scouts. (Applause.) No better. The values, traditions, and skills you learn here will serve you throughout your lives, and just as importantly they will serve your families, your cities, and in the future and in the present, will serve your country. (Applause.) The Scouts believe in putting America first. (Applause.)

                      You know, I go to Washington and I see all these politicians, and I see the swamp. And it’s not a good place. In fact today I said we ought to change it from the word swamp to the word cesspool or, perhaps, to the word sewer. But it’s not good. Not good. (Applause.) And I see what’s going on, and believe me I’d much rather be with you. That I can tell you. (Applause.)

                      I’ll tell you the reason that I love this and the reason that I really wanted to be here is because as President, I rely on former Boy Scouts every single day, and so do the American people. It’s amazing how many Boy Scouts we have at the highest level of our great government. Many of my top advisors in the White House were Scouts. Ten members of my cabinet were Scouts. Can you believe that? Ten. (Applause.)

                      Secretary of State Rex Tillerson is not only a Boy Scout, he’s your former national president. (Applause.)

                      The Vice President of the United States, Mike Pence — good guy — was a Scout, and it meant so much to him. (Applause.) Some of you here tonight might even have camped out in this yard when Mike was the governor of Indiana, but the scouting was very, very important. And by the way, where are our Indiana Scouts tonight? (Applause.) I wonder if the television cameras will follow you. They don’t like doing that when they see these massive crowds. They don’t like doing that. Hi, folks. (Applause.) A lot of love in this big, beautiful place. A lot of love, and a lot of love for our country. There’s a lot of love for our country.

                      Secretary of the Interior Ryan Zinke is here tonight. Come here, Ryan. (Applause.) Ryan is an Eagle Scout from Big Sky Country in Montana. (Applause.) Pretty good. And by the way, he is doing a fantastic job. He makes sure that we leave our national parks and federal lands better than we found them, in the best Scouting tradition. So thank you very much, Ryan. (Applause.)

                      Secretary of Energy Rick Perry, of Texas, an Eagle Scout from the Great State. (Applause.) The first time he came to the national jamboree was in 1964. He was very young then. And Rick told me just a little while ago, it totally changed his life. So, Rick, thank you very much for being here. And we’re doing a lot with energy. (Applause.)

                      And very soon, Rick, we will be an energy exporter. Isn’t that nice — an energy exporter? (Applause.) In other words we’ll be selling our energy instead of buying it from everybody all over the globe. So that’s good. (Applause.) We will be energy dominant. And I’ll tell you what, the folks in West Virginia who were so nice to me, boy, have we kept our promise. We are going on and on. So we love West Virginia. We want to thank you.

                      Where’s West Virginia by the way? (Applause.) Thank you.

                      Secretary Tom Price is also here. Today Dr. Price still lives the Scout Oath, helping to keep millions of Americans strong and healthy as our Secretary of Health and Human Services. And he’s doing a great job. And hopefully, he’s going to get the votes tomorrow to start our path toward killing this horrible thing known as Obamacare that’s really hurting us, folks. (Applause.)

                      AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!

                      TRUMP: By the way, you going to get the votes?

                      He better get them. He better get them. Oh, he better — otherwise, I’ll say, Tom, you’re fired. I’ll get somebody. (Applause.)

                      He better get Senator Capito to vote for it. You got to get the other senators to vote for it. It’s time. After seven years of saying repeal and replace Obamacare, we have a chance to now do it. They better do it. Hopefully they’ll do it.

                      As we can see just by looking at our government, in America, Scouts lead the way. And another thing I’ve noticed — and I’ve noticed it all my life — there is a tremendous spirit with being a Scout, more so than almost anything I can think of. So whatever is going on, keep doing it. It’s incredible to watch. Believe me. (Applause.)

                      Each of these leaders will tell you that their road to American success — and you have to understand, their American success, and they are a great, great story was paved with the patriotic American values as traditions they learned in the Boy Scouts. And some day, many years from now, when you look back on all of the adventures in your lives, you will be able to say the same: I got my start as a Scout just like these incredibly great people that are doing such a good job for our country. So that’s going to happen. (Applause.)

                      Boy Scout values are American values, and great Boy Scouts become great, great Americans. As the Scout Law says: “A Scout is trustworthy, loyal” — we could use some more loyalty, I will tell you that.

                      AUDIENCE: “helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.” (Applause.)

                      TRUMP: That was very impressive. (Laughter.) You’ve heard that before.

                      But here you learn the rewards of hard work and perseverance. Never ever give up, never quit. Persevere. Never, ever quit.

                      You learn the satisfaction of building a roaring campfire, reaching a mountain summit, or earning a merit badge after mastering a certain skill. There’s no better feeling than an achievement that you’ve earned with your own sweat, tears, resolve, hard work. There’s nothing like it. Do you agree with that?

                      AUDIENCE: Yes!

                      TRUMP: I’m waving to people back there so small I can’t even see them. Man, this is a lot of people. Turn those cameras back there, please. That is so incredible.

                      By the way, what do you think the chances are that this incredible, massive crowd, record-setting is going to be shown on television tonight? One percent or zero? (Applause.)

                      The fake media will say: President Trump — and you know what this is — President Trump spoke before a small crowd of Boy Scouts today.

                      That’s some — that is some crowd. (Applause.)

                      Fake media. Fake news. Thank you. And I’m honored by that, by the way, all of you people they can’t even see you. So thank you. I hope you can hear.

                      Through scouting you also learn to believe in yourselves — so important — to have confidence in your ability, and to take responsibility for your own life. When you face down new challenges, and you will have plenty of them, develop talents you never thought possible, and lead your teammates through daring trials, you discover that you can handle anything. And you learn it by being a scout. It’s great. (Applause.)

                      You can do anything. You can be anything you want to be. But in order to succeed, you must find out what you love to do. You have to find your passion. No matter what they tell you — if you don’t — I love you, too. I don’t know. It’s a nice guy. (Applause.) Hey, what am I going to do? He sounds like a nice person. He, he, he, he. Thank you. I do. I do love you.

                      AUDIENCE: We love Trump! We love Trump! We love Trump!

                      TRUMP: By the way, just a question, did President Obama ever come to a jamboree?

                      AUDIENCE: No!

                      TRUMP: And we’ll be back. We’ll be back. The answer is no, but we’ll be back.

                      In life, in order to be successful, and you people are well on the road to success, you have to find out what makes you excited. What makes you want to get up each morning and go to work? You have to find it.

                      If you love what you do and dedicate yourself to your work, then you will gain momentum, and look — you have to, you need to. The word momentum — you will gain that momentum, and each success will create another success. The word momentum.

                      I’ll tell you a story that’s very interesting for me when I was young. There was a man named William Levitt — Levittowns, you have some here, you have some in different states. Anybody ever hear of Levittown? (Applause.) And he was a very successful man. He was a homebuilder — became an unbelievable success, and got more and more successful. And he built homes, and at night he’d go to these major sites with teams of people and he’d scour the sites for nails and sawdust and small pieces of wood. And they’d clean the site so when the workers came in the next morning, the sites would be spotless and clean, and he did it properly. And he did this for 20 years, and then he was offered a lot of money for his company.

                      And he sold his company for a tremendous amount of money. At the time especially — this was a long time ago — sold his company for a tremendous amount of money. And he went out and bought a big yacht, and he had a very interesting life. I won’t go any more than that because you’re Boy Scouts, so I’m not going to tell you what he did.

                      AUDIENCE: Booo —

                      TRUMP: Should I tell you? Should I tell you?

                      AUDIENCE: Yes!

                      TRUMP: Oh, you’re Boy Scouts, but you know life. You know life. So — look at you. Who would think this is the Boy Scouts, right?

                      So he had a very, very interesting life, and the company that bought his company was a big conglomerate. And they didn’t know anything about building homes, and they didn’t know anything about picking up the nails and the sawdust and selling it — and the scraps of wood. This was a big conglomerate based in New York City, and after about a ten year period they were losing a lot with it. It didn’t mean anything to them, and they couldn’t sell it.

                      So they called William Levitt up and they said, would you like to buy back your company, and he said yes, I would. He so badly wanted it, he got bored with this life of yachts and sailing and all of the things he did in the south of France and other places. You won’t get bored, right? You know, truthfully, you’re workers. You’ll get bored too. Believe me. (Applause.) Of course, having a good few years like that isn’t so bad. (Applause.) But what happened is he bought back his company, and he bought back a lot of empty land. And he worked hard in getting it zoning, and he worked hard on starting to develop.

                      And in the end he failed, and he failed badly. Lost all of his money. He went personally bankrupt, and he was now much older. And I saw him at a cocktail party, and it was very sad because the hottest people in New York were at this party. It was the party of Steve Ross who was one of the great people — he came up and discovered — really founded — Time Warner, and he was a great guy. He had a lot of successful people at the party.

                      And I was doing well so I got invited to the party. I was very young, and I go in — but I’m in the real estate business — and I see 100 people, some of whom I recognize and they’re big in the entertainment business. And I see, sitting in the corner, was a little old man who was all by himself. Nobody was talking to him. I immediately recognized that that man was the once great William Levitt of Levittown, and I immediately went over — I wanted to talk to him more than the Hollywood show business communications people.

                      So I went over and talked to him, and I said, Mr. Levitt, I’m Donald Trump. He said I know. I said, Mr. Levitt, how are you doing? He goes, not well, not well at all. And I knew that, but he said not well at all. And he explained what was happening and how bad it has been and how hard it has been. And I said what exactly happened? Why did this happen to you? You’re one of the greats ever in our industry. Why did this happen to you? And he said, Donald, I lost my momentum. I lost my momentum. A word you never hear when you’re talking about success. When some of these guys that never made ten cents, they’re on television giving you things about how you’re going to be successful, and the only thing they ever did was a book and a tape.

                      But I’ll tell you, it was very sad, and I never forgot that moment. And I thought about it, and it’s exactly true. He lost his momentum. Meaning, he took this period of time off long — years — and then when he got back, he didn’t have that same momentum. In life, I always tell this to people, you have to know whether or not you continue to have the momentum, and if you don’t have it that’s okay. Because you’re going to go on and you’re going to learn and you’re going to do things that are great. But you have to know about the word momentum.

                      But the big thing: Never quit. Never give up. Do something you love. When you do something you love — as a Scout I see that you love it. But when you do something that you love you’ll never fail. What you’re going to do is give it a shot again and again and again. You’re ultimately going to be successful, and remember this, you’re not working. Because when you’re doing something that you love like I do — of course I love my business, but this is a little bit different. Who thought this was going to happen? We’re having a good time. We’re doing a good job. (Applause.) Doing a good job. But when you do something that you love, remember this, it’s not work.

                      So you’ll work 24/7, you’re going to work all the time, and at the end of a year you’re not really working. You don’t think of it as work. When you’re not doing something that you like or when you’re forced in to do something that you really don’t like, that’s called work. And it’s hard work and tedious work.

                      So as much as you can, do something that you love. Work hard, and never ever give up, and you’re going to be tremendously successful. Tremendously successful. (Applause.)

                      Now with that, I have to tell you our economy is doing great. Our stock market has picked up — since the election November 8th. Do we remember that date? (Applause.) Was that a beautiful date? (Applause.) What a date. Do you remember that famous night on television, November 8th, where they said — these dishonest people — where they said there is no path to victory for Donald Trump? They forgot about the forgotten people. By the way, they’re not forgetting about the forgotten people anymore. They’re going crazy trying to figure it out. But I told them, far too late. It’s far too late.

                      But do you remember that incredible night with the maps and the Republicans are red and the Democrats are blue, and that map was so red, it was unbelievable, and they didn’t know what to say? (Applause.)

                      And you know we have a tremendous disadvantage in the Electoral College — popular vote is much easier. Because New York, California, Illinois — you have to practically run the East Coast. And we did. We won Florida. We won South Carolina. We won North Carolina. We won Pennsylvania. (Applause.)

                      We won and won. So when they said, there is no way to victory, there is no way to 270. I went to Maine four times because it’s one vote, and we won. But we won — one vote. I went there because I kept hearing we’re at 269. But then Wisconsin came in. Many, many years — Michigan came in.

                      And we worked hard there. My opponent didn’t work hard there because she was told —

                      AUDIENCE: Booo!

                      TRUMP: She was told she was going to win Michigan, and I said, well, wait a minute, the car industry is moving to Mexico. Why is she going to move — she’s there. Why are they allowing it to move?

                      And by the way, do you see those car industry — do you see what’s happening, how they’re coming back to Michigan? They’re coming back to Ohio. They’re starting to peel back in. (Applause.)

                      And we go to Wisconsin — now, Wisconsin hadn’t been won in many, many years by a Republican. But we go to Wisconsin, and we had tremendous crowds. And I’d leave these massive crowds. I’d say, why are we going to lose this state?

                      The polls — that’s also fake news. They’re fake polls. But the polls are saying — but we won Wisconsin. (Applause.) So I have to tell you what we did, in all fairness, is an unbelievable tribute to you and all of the other millions and millions of people that came out and voted for Make America Great Again. (Applause.)

                      AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!

                      TRUMP: And I’ll tell you what, we are, indeed, making America great again. What’s going on is incredible. (Applause.)

                      We had the best jobs report in 16 years. The stock market on a daily basis is hitting an all-time high. We’re going to be bringing back very soon trillions of dollars from companies that can’t get their money back into this country, and that money is going to be used to help rebuild America. We’re doing things that nobody ever thought was possible.

                      And we’ve just started. It’s just the beginning. Believe me. (Applause.)

                      In the Boy Scouts you learn right from wrong, correct?

                      AUDIENCE: Yes!

                      TRUMP: You learn to contribute to your communities, to take pride in your nation, and to seek out opportunities to serve. You pledge to help other people at all times. (Applause.)

                      In the Scout Oath, you pledge on your honor to do your best and to do your duty to God and your country. (Applause.)

                      And by the way, under the Trump administration, you’ll be saying, merry Christmas again when you go shopping. Believe me. Merry Christmas. (Applause.)

                      They’ve been downplaying that little, beautiful phrase. You’re going to be saying, merry Christmas again, folks. (Applause.)

                      But the words duty, country, and God are beautiful words. In other words, basically what you’re doing is you’re pledging to be a great American patriot. (Applause.)

                      For more than a century that is exactly what our Boy Scouts have been. Last year you gave more than 15 million hours of service to helping people in your communities. (Applause.)

                      Incredible. That’s an incredible stat.

                      All of you here tonight will contribute more than 100,000 hours of service by the end of this jamboree — 100,000. (Applause.)

                      When natural disaster strikes, when people face hardship, when the beauty and glory of our outdoor spaces must be restored and taken care of, America turns to the Boy Scouts because we know that the Boy Scouts never, ever, ever let us down. (Applause.)

                      Just like you know you can count on me, we know we can count on you because we know the values that you live by. (Applause.)

                      Your values are the same values that have always kept America strong, proud, and free. And by the way, do you see the billions and billions and billions of additional money that we’re putting back into our military? Billions of dollars. (Applause.) New planes, new ships, great equipment for our people that are so great to us. We love our vets. We love our soldiers. And we love our police, by the way. Firemen, police — we love our police. (Applause.) Those are all special people. Uniformed services.

                      Two days ago, I traveled to Norfolk, Virginia to commission an American aircraft carrier into the fleet of the United States Navy. (Applause.) It’s the newest, largest, and most advanced aircraft carrier anywhere in the world, and it’s named for an Eagle Scout, the USS Gerald R. Ford. (Applause.) Everywhere it sails, that great Scout’s name will be feared and revered, because that ship will be a symbol of American power, prestige, and strength. (Applause.)

                      Our nation honors President Gerald R. Ford today because he lived his life the scouting way. Boy Scouts celebrate American patriots, especially the brave members of our armed forces. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. (Applause.)

                      American hearts are warmed every year when we read about Boy Scouts placing thousands and thousands of flags next to veterans’ gravesites all across the country. By honoring our heroes, you help to ensure that their memory never, ever dies. You should take great pride in the example you set for every citizen of our country to follow. (Applause.)

                      Generations of American Boy Scouts have sworn the same oath and lived according to same law. You inherit a noble American tradition, and as you embark on your lives, never cease to be proud of who you are and the principles you hold dear and stand by. Wear your values as your badge of honor. What you’ve done, few have done before you. What you’ve done is incredible. What you’ve done is admired by all. So I want to congratulate you, Boy Scouts. (Applause.)

                      Let your scouting oath guide your path from this day forward. Remember your duty. Honor your history. Take care of the people God put into your life, and love and cherish your great country. (Applause.)

                      You are very special people. You’re special in the lives of America. You’re special to me. But if you do what we say, I promise you that you will live scouting’s adventure every single day of your life, and you will win, win, win and help people in doing so. (Applause.)

                      Your lives will have meaning and purpose and joy. You will become leaders, and you will inspire others to achieve the dreams they once thought were totally impossible, things that you said could never, ever happen are already happening for you. And if you do these things — and if you refuse to give in to doubt or to fear — then you will help to make America great again. You will be proud of yourself, be proud of the uniform you wear, and be proud of the country you love. (Applause.)

                      AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!

                      TRUMP: And never, ever forget, America is proud of you. (Applause.)

                      This is a very, very special occasion for me. I’ve known so many Scouts over the years. Winners. I’ve known so many great people. They’ve been taught so well, and they love their heritage. But this is very special for me. And I just want to end by saying very importantly: God bless you. God bless the Boy Scouts. God bless the United States of America.

                      Go out. Have a great time in life. Compete and go out and show me that there is nobody — nobody — like a Boy Scout.

                      Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. (Applause.)

                    • Any chance you can migrate the subthread containing all the speech analysis to the bottom of the page where it can occupy a level one post and we don’t have to read a 2″ wide column of text that’s about 3,567 ft long?

                    • I wish. Maybe—I just don’t think it’s worth it, or that analysis is necessary.

                    • I don’t think it’s worth it either. Chris is being loose with his definition of “political” in order to fluff his accusations regarding the speech. But still, if he’s gonna argue it, it makes it easier for counter arguers to review his assessment.

                      I mean, in reality, ever since the speech, the Boy Scouts here in Texas have been shattering the windows of Jewish owned businesses and vandalizing shops of minorities. So it’s probably worth all the effort to remind ourselves what we already know:

                      1) Politicians will insert politics into pretty much everything.

                      2) Trump does it far more clumsily and classlessly.

                      3) The media doesn’t care when their people do it and will pretend the world is melting down when Trump does it.

                      Can’t wait:

                      “Trump Classlessly Inserts Politics into State of the Union Address, when Previous Presidents Used the Speech as a Unifying Rallying Cry”

                    • Chris

                      1) It’s a big deal.

                      2) No other president would do a speech like that, and if they did, it would be a big deal. Imagine if Obama did it. No one would defend him.

                      3) The Democrats did not politicize scouting. Refusing to allow gays into the organization WAS a political stance. Democrats objecting to that was the right stance. “It’s hypocritical for you to object to the president for badmouthing the previous president at a BSA Jamboree, when you were perfectly fine with Democrats opposing the BSA’s stance on gays!” is a completely incoherent argument. That’s literally not what hypocrisy means.

                      Especially since you keep saying Obama tried to “destroy” the organization, while giving zero examples of him doing so.

                      4) What serious person is calling for impeachment over this? This seems like a strawman.

                    • 1. You’re deluded! If Obama gave his version of this kind of speech with the crowd cheering, nobody would mention it at all. The news media would fawn as usual. It would be a non-story. How can you even suggest otherwise? Obama criticized past Presidents in foreign nations, and only the conservative news media and a few pundits blinked. Yet that was infinitely worse than anything Trump said to a bunch of kids.

                      2. Did you really read the speech? Be honest. If so, pick out the parts that are so horrific. Then calculate what proportion of the speech was political at all. It was less than 10% . Probably less than 5. Trump gave a personal, genuinely enthusiastic speech as opposed to Obama’s sterile video Of course it went over well. Trump’s like a big kid and talks like a kid.

                      3. The news media and Democrats are seeking impeachment because they hate Trump’s style and very existence. This speech was just another example of both. Other than that, they have nothing. That’s why these kinds of episodes are hyped beyond all reason. It’s all they have.

                    • I just read the speech again, just to be fair…and I hate reading Trump blather. That speech is a “big deal”? That speech? Honestly, this is proof positive of Trump derangement, to see a few ad libbed cracks about Obama, health care and fake news to a bunch of Boy Scouts in the middle of standard inspirational fare as a “big deal.” Wow.

                    • Chris

                      Here’s the actual speech. After all the hyper-ventilating, I expected to read a mostly political speech. It wasn’t. It wasn’t even close.

                      I plan on going through the whole speech and bolding the political parts, but…does it really matter whether “most” of the speech was political in nature? I don’t know how long the speech was, but on this basis you could say that if it was 20 minutes long and only 9 of those minutes were spent on politics, people have nothing to complain about. That’s absurd.

                      He gave a shot to Obama…petty, classless, but that was the most inappropriate part of the speech.

                      He also took petty and classless shots at Hillary Clinton and the media…because he’s a petty, classless person. Why you think the media should not report on new instances of his pettiness and classlessness is still a mystery to me. If we ignore this, it becomes normal. I think to you, it already has become normal; it’s background noise. But the fact that we have a deeply unethical leader will never stop mattering as long as he’s in office.

                      He talked about repealing Obamacare—the Horror. He mentioned fake news.

                      Neither of which was at all appropriate. You know that, so I really don’t know what you’re arguing about? The degree to which people are upset? What level of outrage do you think is appropriate for this? You’ve said calling for impeachment is an overreaction, but no one here–or anywhere I’ve seen–seems to disagree with that.

                      …it wasn’t a political speech. It was an inspirational speech with a few interjected political comments.

                      It was more than “a few,” which I’ll show in a moment.

                      …Trump’s comments were upbeat and the political shots were quick and tangential

                      Nope.

                      …the news media was outraged because the Scouts were supportive and enthusiastic. How dare they!

                      They are supposed to be a leadership organization. They are supposed to set an example. Not booing the former president at the behest of the current one would have been a good way to show that. Like I said, most of the responsibility lies with Trump…but there is no way this incident was not a failure of leadership and a failure to set a positive example by the Scouts.

                      …it was ticked off because Trump slammed Obama.

                      …Yes, and if it had been Obama slamming Bush, it would have been equally wrong.

                      …it was mostly outraged that the speaker was Donald Trump.

                      …Come on. If he had given a good speech, minus the politics, many members of the media would have either congratulated him for finally being presidential, or ignored it entirely because it wouldn’t matter.

                      There was nothing Trump said, political or non-political, that justifies calling this a Hitler Youth rally.

                      I agree that was an over-the-top comparison. No one here has made it, nor did anyone in the mainstream media that I’m aware of. If I’m wrong on that, correct me.

                      Now let’s go through the speech and bold the political parts:

                      AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!

                      TRUMP: Thank you, everybody. Thank you very much. (Applause.) I am thrilled to be here. Thrilled. (Applause.) And if you think that was an easy trip, you’re wrong, but I am thrilled — 19th Boy Scout Jamboree — wow — and to address such a tremendous group. Boy, you have a lot of people here. The press will say it’s about 200 people. (Laughter.) It looks like about 45,000 people. You set a record today. (Applause.) You set a record. That’s a great honor, believe me.

                      He literally attacked the press in his first paragraph.

                      Tonight, we put aside all of the policy fights in Washington, D.C. — you’ve been hearing about with the fake news and all of that. (Applause.) We’re going to put that aside.

                      Yes, we’ll put all that aside, except I want to mention it several times right away and several other times later.

                      And instead we’re going to talk about success, about how all of you amazing young Scouts can achieve your dreams. What to think of — what I’ve been thinking about — you want to achieve your dreams. I said, who the hell wants to speak about politics when I’m in front of the Boy Scouts? Right? (Applause.)

                      There are many great honors that come with the job of being President of the United States, but looking out at this incredible gathering of mostly young patriots — mostly young — I’m especially proud to speak to you as the honorary President of the Boy Scouts of America. (Applause.)

                      AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!

                      TRUMP: You are the young people of character and integrity who will serve as leaders in our communities, and uphold the sacred values of our nation.

                      I want to thank Boy Scouts President Randall Stephenson, Chief Scout Executive Michael Surbaugh, Jamboree Chairman Ralph de la Vega, and the thousands of volunteers who have made this a life-changing experience for all of you, and when they asked me to be here I said absolutely, yes. (Applause.)

                      Finally, and we can’t forget these people, I especially want to salute the moms and the dads and troop leaders who are here tonight. (Applause.) Thank you for making scouting possible. Thank you, mom and dad — troop leaders.

                      When you volunteer for the Boy Scouts, you are not only shaping young lives, you are shaping the future of America. (Applause.) The United States has no better citizens than its Boy Scouts. (Applause.) No better. The values, traditions, and skills you learn here will serve you throughout your lives, and just as importantly they will serve your families, your cities, and in the future and in the present, will serve your country. (Applause.) The Scouts believe in putting America first. (Applause.)

                      This is a pretty large stretch without much politicization. The last one was a campaign line, so it probably counts, but to be generous I won’t count it.

                      You know, I go to Washington and I see all these politicians, and I see the swamp. And it’s not a good place. In fact today I said we ought to change it from the word swamp to the word cesspool or, perhaps, to the word sewer. But it’s not good. Not good. (Applause.) And I see what’s going on, and believe me I’d much rather be with you. That I can tell you. (Applause.)

                      This is just him trying out new buzzwords. Shameless self-promotion to build his “brand,” and further his political battles (which are really just personal battles writ large for him, since he doesn’t care about policy).

                      I’ll tell you the reason that I love this and the reason that I really wanted to be here is because as President, I rely on former Boy Scouts every single day, and so do the American people. It’s amazing how many Boy Scouts we have at the highest level of our great government. Many of my top advisors in the White House were Scouts. Ten members of my cabinet were Scouts. Can you believe that? Ten. (Applause.)

                      Secretary of State Rex Tillerson is not only a Boy Scout, he’s your former national president. (Applause.)

                      The Vice President of the United States, Mike Pence — good guy — was a Scout, and it meant so much to him. (Applause.) Some of you here tonight might even have camped out in this yard when Mike was the governor of Indiana, but the scouting was very, very important. And by the way, where are our Indiana Scouts tonight? (Applause.) I wonder if the television cameras will follow you. They don’t like doing that when they see these massive crowds. They don’t like doing that. Hi, folks. (Applause.) A lot of love in this big, beautiful place. A lot of love, and a lot of love for our country. There’s a lot of love for our country.

                      More bashing of his perceived enemies.

                      Secretary of the Interior Ryan Zinke is here tonight. Come here, Ryan. (Applause.) Ryan is an Eagle Scout from Big Sky Country in Montana. (Applause.) Pretty good. And by the way, he is doing a fantastic job. He makes sure that we leave our national parks and federal lands better than we found them, in the best Scouting tradition. So thank you very much, Ryan. (Applause.)

                      Secretary of Energy Rick Perry, of Texas, an Eagle Scout from the Great State. (Applause.) The first time he came to the national jamboree was in 1964. He was very young then. And Rick told me just a little while ago, it totally changed his life. So, Rick, thank you very much for being here. And we’re doing a lot with energy. (Applause.)

                      And very soon, Rick, we will be an energy exporter. Isn’t that nice — an energy exporter? (Applause.) In other words we’ll be selling our energy instead of buying it from everybody all over the globe. So that’s good. (Applause.) We will be energy dominant. And I’ll tell you what, the folks in West Virginia who were so nice to me, boy, have we kept our promise. We are going on and on. So we love West Virginia. We want to thank you.

                      Where’s West Virginia by the way? (Applause.) Thank you.

                      Secretary Tom Price is also here. Today Dr. Price still lives the Scout Oath, helping to keep millions of Americans strong and healthy as our Secretary of Health and Human Services. And he’s doing a great job. And hopefully, he’s going to get the votes tomorrow to start our path toward killing this horrible thing known as Obamacare that’s really hurting us, folks. (Applause.)

                      AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!

                      TRUMP: By the way, you going to get the votes?

                      He better get them. He better get them. Oh, he better — otherwise, I’ll say, Tom, you’re fired. I’ll get somebody. (Applause.)

                      He better get Senator Capito to vote for it. You got to get the other senators to vote for it. It’s time. After seven years of saying repeal and replace Obamacare, we have a chance to now do it. They better do it. Hopefully they’ll do it.

                      A long stretch of non-political stuff there, and then he had to go and ruin it.

                      As we can see just by looking at our government, in America, Scouts lead the way. And another thing I’ve noticed — and I’ve noticed it all my life — there is a tremendous spirit with being a Scout, more so than almost anything I can think of. So whatever is going on, keep doing it. It’s incredible to watch. Believe me. (Applause.)

                      Each of these leaders will tell you that their road to American success — and you have to understand, their American success, and they are a great, great story was paved with the patriotic American values as traditions they learned in the Boy Scouts. And some day, many years from now, when you look back on all of the adventures in your lives, you will be able to say the same: I got my start as a Scout just like these incredibly great people that are doing such a good job for our country. So that’s going to happen. (Applause.)

                      Boy Scout values are American values, and great Boy Scouts become great, great Americans. As the Scout Law says: “A Scout is trustworthy, loyal” — we could use some more loyalty, I will tell you that.

                      AUDIENCE: “helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.” (Applause.)

                      TRUMP: That was very impressive. (Laughter.) You’ve heard that before.

                      But here you learn the rewards of hard work and perseverance. Never ever give up, never quit. Persevere. Never, ever quit.

                      You learn the satisfaction of building a roaring campfire, reaching a mountain summit, or earning a merit badge after mastering a certain skill. There’s no better feeling than an achievement that you’ve earned with your own sweat, tears, resolve, hard work. There’s nothing like it. Do you agree with that?

                      AUDIENCE: Yes!

                      TRUMP: I’m waving to people back there so small I can’t even see them. Man, this is a lot of people. Turn those cameras back there, please. That is so incredible.

                      By the way, what do you think the chances are that this incredible, massive crowd, record-setting is going to be shown on television tonight? One percent or zero? (Applause.)

                      The fake media will say: President Trump — and you know what this is — President Trump spoke before a small crowd of Boy Scouts today.

                      That’s some — that is some crowd. (Applause.)

                      Fake media. Fake news. Thank you. And I’m honored by that, by the way, all of you people they can’t even see you. So thank you. I hope you can hear.

                      Again.

                      Through scouting you also learn to believe in yourselves — so important — to have confidence in your ability, and to take responsibility for your own life. When you face down new challenges, and you will have plenty of them, develop talents you never thought possible, and lead your teammates through daring trials, you discover that you can handle anything. And you learn it by being a scout. It’s great. (Applause.)

                      You can do anything. You can be anything you want to be. But in order to succeed, you must find out what you love to do. You have to find your passion. No matter what they tell you — if you don’t — I love you, too. I don’t know. It’s a nice guy. (Applause.) Hey, what am I going to do? He sounds like a nice person. He, he, he, he. Thank you. I do. I do love you.

                      AUDIENCE: We love Trump! We love Trump! We love Trump!

                      TRUMP: By the way, just a question, did President Obama ever come to a jamboree?

                      AUDIENCE: No!

                      TRUMP: And we’ll be back. We’ll be back. The answer is no, but we’ll be back.

                      In life, in order to be successful, and you people are well on the road to success, you have to find out what makes you excited. What makes you want to get up each morning and go to work? You have to find it.

                      If you love what you do and dedicate yourself to your work, then you will gain momentum, and look — you have to, you need to. The word momentum — you will gain that momentum, and each success will create another success. The word momentum.

                      I’ll tell you a story that’s very interesting for me when I was young. There was a man named William Levitt — Levittowns, you have some here, you have some in different states. Anybody ever hear of Levittown? (Applause.) And he was a very successful man. He was a homebuilder — became an unbelievable success, and got more and more successful. And he built homes, and at night he’d go to these major sites with teams of people and he’d scour the sites for nails and sawdust and small pieces of wood. And they’d clean the site so when the workers came in the next morning, the sites would be spotless and clean, and he did it properly. And he did this for 20 years, and then he was offered a lot of money for his company.

                      And he sold his company for a tremendous amount of money. At the time especially — this was a long time ago — sold his company for a tremendous amount of money. And he went out and bought a big yacht, and he had a very interesting life. I won’t go any more than that because you’re Boy Scouts, so I’m not going to tell you what he did.

                      AUDIENCE: Booo —

                      TRUMP: Should I tell you? Should I tell you?

                      AUDIENCE: Yes!

                      TRUMP: Oh, you’re Boy Scouts, but you know life. You know life. So — look at you. Who would think this is the Boy Scouts, right?

                      This part got less attention than the political stuff, but making a sexual innuendo to a crowd of Boy Scouts is pretty gross and equally contemptible, so I’m mentioning it as a side note here.

                      So he had a very, very interesting life, and the company that bought his company was a big conglomerate. And they didn’t know anything about building homes, and they didn’t know anything about picking up the nails and the sawdust and selling it — and the scraps of wood. This was a big conglomerate based in New York City, and after about a ten year period they were losing a lot with it. It didn’t mean anything to them, and they couldn’t sell it.

                      So they called William Levitt up and they said, would you like to buy back your company, and he said yes, I would. He so badly wanted it, he got bored with this life of yachts and sailing and all of the things he did in the south of France and other places. You won’t get bored, right? You know, truthfully, you’re workers. You’ll get bored too. Believe me. (Applause.) Of course, having a good few years like that isn’t so bad. (Applause.) But what happened is he bought back his company, and he bought back a lot of empty land. And he worked hard in getting it zoning, and he worked hard on starting to develop.

                      And in the end he failed, and he failed badly. Lost all of his money. He went personally bankrupt, and he was now much older. And I saw him at a cocktail party, and it was very sad because the hottest people in New York were at this party. It was the party of Steve Ross who was one of the great people — he came up and discovered — really founded — Time Warner, and he was a great guy. He had a lot of successful people at the party.

                      And I was doing well so I got invited to the party. I was very young, and I go in — but I’m in the real estate business — and I see 100 people, some of whom I recognize and they’re big in the entertainment business. And I see, sitting in the corner, was a little old man who was all by himself. Nobody was talking to him. I immediately recognized that that man was the once great William Levitt of Levittown, and I immediately went over — I wanted to talk to him more than the Hollywood show business communications people.

                      So I went over and talked to him, and I said, Mr. Levitt, I’m Donald Trump. He said I know. I said, Mr. Levitt, how are you doing? He goes, not well, not well at all. And I knew that, but he said not well at all. And he explained what was happening and how bad it has been and how hard it has been. And I said what exactly happened? Why did this happen to you? You’re one of the greats ever in our industry. Why did this happen to you? And he said, Donald, I lost my momentum. I lost my momentum. A word you never hear when you’re talking about success. When some of these guys that never made ten cents, they’re on television giving you things about how you’re going to be successful, and the only thing they ever did was a book and a tape.

                      But I’ll tell you, it was very sad, and I never forgot that moment. And I thought about it, and it’s exactly true. He lost his momentum. Meaning, he took this period of time off long — years — and then when he got back, he didn’t have that same momentum. In life, I always tell this to people, you have to know whether or not you continue to have the momentum, and if you don’t have it that’s okay. Because you’re going to go on and you’re going to learn and you’re going to do things that are great. But you have to know about the word momentum.

                      But the big thing: Never quit. Never give up. Do something you love. When you do something you love — as a Scout I see that you love it. But when you do something that you love you’ll never fail. What you’re going to do is give it a shot again and again and again. You’re ultimately going to be successful, and remember this, you’re not working. Because when you’re doing something that you love like I do — of course I love my business, but this is a little bit different. Who thought this was going to happen? We’re having a good time. We’re doing a good job. (Applause.) Doing a good job. But when you do something that you love, remember this, it’s not work.

                      So you’ll work 24/7, you’re going to work all the time, and at the end of a year you’re not really working. You don’t think of it as work. When you’re not doing something that you like or when you’re forced in to do something that you really don’t like, that’s called work. And it’s hard work and tedious work.

                      So as much as you can, do something that you love. Work hard, and never ever give up, and you’re going to be tremendously successful. Tremendously successful. (Applause.)

                      This is incoherent, but not political or offensive. His longest stretch yet! Good job, if your expectations have been lowered to nothing!

                      Now with that, I have to tell you our economy is doing great. Our stock market has picked up — since the election November 8th. Do we remember that date? (Applause.) Was that a beautiful date? (Applause.) What a date. Do you remember that famous night on television, November 8th, where they said — these dishonest people — where they said there is no path to victory for Donald Trump? They forgot about the forgotten people. By the way, they’re not forgetting about the forgotten people anymore. They’re going crazy trying to figure it out. But I told them, far too late. It’s far too late.

                      But do you remember that incredible night with the maps and the Republicans are red and the Democrats are blue, and that map was so red, it was unbelievable, and they didn’t know what to say? (Applause.)

                      And you know we have a tremendous disadvantage in the Electoral College — popular vote is much easier. Because New York, California, Illinois — you have to practically run the East Coast. And we did. We won Florida. We won South Carolina. We won North Carolina. We won Pennsylvania. (Applause.)

                      We won and won. So when they said, there is no way to victory, there is no way to 270. I went to Maine four times because it’s one vote, and we won. But we won — one vote. I went there because I kept hearing we’re at 269. But then Wisconsin came in. Many, many years — Michigan came in.

                      And we worked hard there. My opponent didn’t work hard there because she was told —

                      AUDIENCE: Booo!

                      TRUMP: She was told she was going to win Michigan, and I said, well, wait a minute, the car industry is moving to Mexico. Why is she going to move — she’s there. Why are they allowing it to move?

                      And by the way, do you see those car industry — do you see what’s happening, how they’re coming back to Michigan? They’re coming back to Ohio. They’re starting to peel back in. (Applause.)

                      And we go to Wisconsin — now, Wisconsin hadn’t been won in many, many years by a Republican. But we go to Wisconsin, and we had tremendous crowds. And I’d leave these massive crowds. I’d say, why are we going to lose this state?

                      The polls — that’s also fake news. They’re fake polls. But the polls are saying — but we won Wisconsin. (Applause.) So I have to tell you what we did, in all fairness, is an unbelievable tribute to you and all of the other millions and millions of people that came out and voted for Make America Great Again. (Applause.)

                      I normally wouldn’t count encouraging words about the economy or a resurgent auto industry as unnecessary politicization, but given that he immediately pivots from those topics to talk about his electoral win, Hillary, and “fake news,” in this case they obviously count. This stretch of political talk is nearly as long as his longest stretch of non-political talk. I still don’t know if it counts as “most” of the speech, but it’s obviously way too much.

                      AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!

                      TRUMP: And I’ll tell you what, we are, indeed, making America great again. What’s going on is incredible. (Applause.)

                      We had the best jobs report in 16 years. The stock market on a daily basis is hitting an all-time high. We’re going to be bringing back very soon trillions of dollars from companies that can’t get their money back into this country, and that money is going to be used to help rebuild America. We’re doing things that nobody ever thought was possible.

                      And we’ve just started. It’s just the beginning. Believe me. (Applause.)

                      I’m not counting this part as political, since he is saying generically encouraging things about the state of the economy. There is nothing wrong with that. Notice that here he does not tie it to his own greatness or his enemies’ weaknesses. Had the rest of his political asides been like this, I wouldn’t have a problem.

                      In the Boy Scouts you learn right from wrong, correct?

                      AUDIENCE: Yes!

                      TRUMP: You learn to contribute to your communities, to take pride in your nation, and to seek out opportunities to serve. You pledge to help other people at all times. (Applause.)

                      In the Scout Oath, you pledge on your honor to do your best and to do your duty to God and your country. (Applause.)

                      And by the way, under the Trump administration, you’ll be saying, merry Christmas again when you go shopping. Believe me. Merry Christmas. (Applause.)

                      They’ve been downplaying that little, beautiful phrase. You’re going to be saying, merry Christmas again, folks. (Applause.)

                      But the words duty, country, and God are beautiful words. In other words, basically what you’re doing is you’re pledging to be a great American patriot. (Applause.)

                      For more than a century that is exactly what our Boy Scouts have been. Last year you gave more than 15 million hours of service to helping people in your communities. (Applause.)

                      Incredible. That’s an incredible stat.

                      All of you here tonight will contribute more than 100,000 hours of service by the end of this jamboree — 100,000. (Applause.)

                      When natural disaster strikes, when people face hardship, when the beauty and glory of our outdoor spaces must be restored and taken care of, America turns to the Boy Scouts because we know that the Boy Scouts never, ever, ever let us down. (Applause.)

                      Just like you know you can count on me, we know we can count on you because we know the values that you live by. (Applause.)

                      Your values are the same values that have always kept America strong, proud, and free. And by the way, do you see the billions and billions and billions of additional money that we’re putting back into our military? Billions of dollars. (Applause.) New planes, new ships, great equipment for our people that are so great to us. We love our vets. We love our soldiers. And we love our police, by the way. Firemen, police — we love our police. (Applause.) Those are all special people. Uniformed services.

                      Two days ago, I traveled to Norfolk, Virginia to commission an American aircraft carrier into the fleet of the United States Navy. (Applause.) It’s the newest, largest, and most advanced aircraft carrier anywhere in the world, and it’s named for an Eagle Scout, the USS Gerald R. Ford. (Applause.) Everywhere it sails, that great Scout’s name will be feared and revered, because that ship will be a symbol of American power, prestige, and strength. (Applause.)

                      Our nation honors President Gerald R. Ford today because he lived his life the scouting way. Boy Scouts celebrate American patriots, especially the brave members of our armed forces. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. (Applause.)

                      American hearts are warmed every year when we read about Boy Scouts placing thousands and thousands of flags next to veterans’ gravesites all across the country. By honoring our heroes, you help to ensure that their memory never, ever dies. You should take great pride in the example you set for every citizen of our country to follow. (Applause.)

                      Generations of American Boy Scouts have sworn the same oath and lived according to same law. You inherit a noble American tradition, and as you embark on your lives, never cease to be proud of who you are and the principles you hold dear and stand by. Wear your values as your badge of honor. What you’ve done, few have done before you. What you’ve done is incredible. What you’ve done is admired by all. So I want to congratulate you, Boy Scouts. (Applause.)

                      Let your scouting oath guide your path from this day forward. Remember your duty. Honor your history. Take care of the people God put into your life, and love and cherish your great country. (Applause.)

                      You are very special people. You’re special in the lives of America. You’re special to me. But if you do what we say, I promise you that you will live scouting’s adventure every single day of your life, and you will win, win, win and help people in doing so. (Applause.)

                      Your lives will have meaning and purpose and joy. You will become leaders, and you will inspire others to achieve the dreams they once thought were totally impossible, things that you said could never, ever happen are already happening for you. And if you do these things — and if you refuse to give in to doubt or to fear — then you will help to make America great again. You will be proud of yourself, be proud of the uniform you wear, and be proud of the country you love. (Applause.)

                      AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!

                      TRUMP: And never, ever forget, America is proud of you. (Applause.)

                      This is a very, very special occasion for me. I’ve known so many Scouts over the years. Winners. I’ve known so many great people. They’ve been taught so well, and they love their heritage. But this is very special for me. And I just want to end by saying very importantly: God bless you. God bless the Boy Scouts. God bless the United States of America.

                      Go out. Have a great time in life. Compete and go out and show me that there is nobody — nobody — like a Boy Scout.

                      Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. (Applause.)

                      This last stretch was pretty good, I’ll give him that.

                    • Chris

                      Ugh. I fucked up and some of the political comments are not showing up in bold. I am currently doing a word count of all the political stuff and non-political stuff in the speech, and I’ll let you know when I’m done.

                    • Chris

                      OK, I did a word count. I looked all the non-political portions of the speech first, making sure to double-check (as I messed up the bolding AND italicization in my earlier analysis) that I didn’t count any political portions as non-political or vice versa, and took out all the “applause,” audience comments and other descriptions. Then I did the same with the political portions. It’s possible I still made some errors. I’ll double check tomorrow.

                      Non-political word count: 3,421

                      Political word count: 794

                      You were right that the majority of the speech was not political–but I’m not aware of anyone who says it was. You were off with your estimation of 5-10% of the speech being political. Adding those numbers together, I get a word count of 4,215 words. 794/4,215 = 18.8%.

                      That’s not close to “most,” but again, that’s not the problem. Dedicating one fifth of a speech to children at an event for a non-partisan charity group to partisan politics, including several airings of grievances toward one’s political enemies, is worth condemnation. That our president lacks the self-control and maturity to just give a straightforward speech to a group of children at such an event without engaging in such petty attacks is a big deal. This man has the nuclear codes. Incidences like this aren’t the end of the world, but they’re one more reminder that we are currently a nation without a leader. Our president can’t lead. That is worth talking about. It is worth outrage.

                    • Thanks for doing the work, Chris. I’m surprised, honestly. 18% is double what I would have guessed, but Trump-speak numbs the hell out of me, so I have that excuse. The content of that 18% is trivial, and not close to a justification for the freak-out. That Trump lacks self-control and maturity is indeed the primary negative take-away, but that’s what I have been saying: this is another example of the news media screaming, “Look at Trump! He’s TRUMP! We hate Trump! But there he is! How dare he!”

                      He’s behaving exactly as everyone who voted for him expected, or should have, just in contexts that hadn’t occurred to them, and to act as if this is a shock, news, or a major episode every single time is disingenuous or proof of hysteria.

                    • This may never get seen by anyone, given that this rabbit trail has a life of it’s own, and seems to be metastasizing, but nevertheless this is about who I am, not who sees it:

                      I apologize for taking a cheap shot at Chris over what turned out to be a simple error.

                      My frame of mind regarding Chris over another thread (and progressive tactic in general) clouded my judgement with regard to this comment.

                      Note the analysis of Alinsky tactics is still valid: this was just not a case of their use.

                    • Chris

                      Seen and appreciated, slick.

                • Chris

                  It’s ridiculous that anyone had to fact-check something this petty, but I just found this analysis of presidential attendance at Jamborees by a former Boy Scout:

                  https://middletownscouter.wordpress.com/2015/03/27/setting-the-record-straight-presidential-visits-to-the-bsa-national-jamboree/

                  It would seem the statement “Presidents have always moved heaven and earth to get to the Jamboree” is completely false. Nixon, Reagan, and Carter did not attend at all.

              • Groan. I was wondering when the latest political buzzword would appear on Ethics Alarms.

                When I first heard people arguing about this, I, just like you, should recognize this as “well they’re just as bad” or “everybody does it” rationalization.

                • Chris

                  Who is this in response to, tex? The “well they’re just as bad” rationalization was brought up by Jack in response to valky. And it doesn’t even work, because not attending the Boy Scouts Jamboree is not just as bad as attending and turning it into a political rally.

                  • That isn’t even close to what I wrote. Trump’s conduct isn’t justifiable, and I didn’t say it was. I do credit him for genuinely and sincerely supporting Scouting, which Obama did not.

                  • It was a response to valky, as it should have nested under her comment. And it is an observation about the introduction of the latest political buzzword. And it is a comment that in Ethics Alarms jargon, we already have a term for it.

                    • valkygrrl

                      They’re just as bad implies similar circumstances, as does everybody does it. We’re not talking about an accusation of doing a same or similar thing. We’re talking about refusing to pay attention to word or deed and instead making an attack about anything else.

                      It doesn’t even rise to the level of rationalization, it’s pure deflecting.

                    • What should have been a non-controversial comment, is, as I suppose I should’ve predicted, becoming an argument.

                      Phenomenal.

                      My comment doesn’t accuse you or anyone of invoking a rationalization. It doesn’t accuse you or anyone of invoking “what about-ism”.

                      It was an observation that we already have a term for “whataboutism”. And it is a deflection towards other people’s conduct. In the vein primarily of saying “you didn’t care then, why do you care now” and at its core appeals to the rationalizations we already have available to us in Ethics Alarms.

                    • valkygrrl

                      Except it isn’t a case of you didn’t care then. It’s a case of you didn’t care about debate questions so how dare you care about MLB players doping? If anything it’s closer to there are worse things but with a heavy emphasis on attack not necessarily inherent in the rationalization.

                    • Feel free to argue all you want that there’s no analogy in the comparison Jack makes. I just don’t think it useful for clarity to introduce the latest buzzword into a conversation when we already have jargon that covers it.

            • The Scouts were unjustly and destructively undermined and attacked by the news media and the Democrats, and Obama, despite being the orgnaization’s honorary leader, enabled it.

              You are doing the same, by suggesting that somehow a group of teens and pre-teens should have the political sophistication required to have them temper their enthusiasm when the President of the United States deems them worthy of a personal appearance—which the previous President did not.

              • Chris

                And where were the leaders? I assume there were adults in the crowd as well. I would also assume they’d prepare the scouts for proper conduct during the presidential visit…now, perhaps the adults did not prepare the scouts for what to do if the president abandoned all standards of proper conduct, since they’ve never had to do that before…but they should have known that they would have to do that this time.

                I’m sure there were some kids and adults in the crowd who didn’t cheer at the political statements. Those are ethics heroes. The others failed to live up to the principles they are taught in Boy Scouts.

                They’re still kids, so I don’t judge them too harshly. The primary culpability here lies with Trump.

                And try as you might, your constant digs about Obama not appearing do not make him look worse than Trump in this instance. As I’ve shown you, many presidents have not attended the jamboree. And again, not showing up is in no way worse than showing up and making it a political rally for yourself.

  16. Be fair. Chris could merely be citing some talking point and only be mistakenly pushing someone else’s lie. Otherwise, the rest of your comment is on point.

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