Comment Of The Day: “I Worry About Cary Grant”

Today’s Comment of the Day was spawned by the post about the fading of cultural memories of important film artists. texaggo4 has his doubts about my concerns, and whether the phenomenon is worth worrying about, or even a problem at all.

I admit, this topic is an unusually intense and personal one for me. It was the reason why I devoted a large portion of my life and creative energy for twenty years to the quixotic challenge of creating and trying to maintain a professional theater company in the Washington, D.C. area devoted to producing American stage works of quality and historical importance that were in danger of falling out of the American stage repertoire entirely, if they were not already forgotten. We proved that many shows thought hopelessly dated or politically incorrect still worked (“The Boys in the Band,” “The Seven Year Itch,” “Native Son,” “The Cradle Will Rock”…), found genuine masterpieces that almost nobody knew existed (“Moby Dick Rehearsed,” “Machinal,’ “Marathon 33″…), and lost a fortune on artistic gambles that didn’t pan out, for a wide variety of reasons, including bad management, bad luck, or the unpredictability of show biz. Notable disasters that still give me nightmares include ” “Home of the Brave,'” Mr Roberts,” “A Flag is Born,” “Dear World, and “The Pirate.” We had a devoted and loyal following, and I think we proved our point, but basically didn’t make a ripple despite all that work. (Except perhaps in this case, and maybe that was enough…) Heck, our theater was in a school building, and we couldn’t get any teachers to bring their classes to our shows, even for free.

But then, most of my life has been devoted to futile pursuits. After all, I’m an ethicist…

Here is tex’s Comment of the Day on the post,I Worry About Cary Grant:

What exactly are we asking for here? Facial recognition of the actor and an ability to recollect every great movie ever produced? What’s the goal of Cultural Memory? It cannot be the rote memorization of EVERY SINGLE great artist, producer and creator of art & culture. 1, we’d never have time to get around to memorizing ALL of it, 2, we’d never have time to get around to viewing all of it, 3, we’d never have any time to get around producing new examples of it, 4, we’d never have any time to get around doing anything else that life calls us to do.

The great conversation, as it is called, which is the ongoing “dialogue” between artists of the present with their contemporaries as well as with their predecessors. Artists take the concepts that are explored in the past, the debates had between opposing concepts in the past, and rework them in the present, either shedding light on new angles or re-engaging the old arguments, or bolstering new arguments. This long process of cultural production has produced MILLIONS of individual works and, without a doubt, TENS of thousands of artists. Of those countless producers & performers, we can assume there are many many thousands of individual works that could be called “culturally iconic” or “unique” or “ground breaking” and thousands of artists.

Feeling less well read that I ought to, I compiled a list of what several thinkers considered to be the “Western Canon”: a list of essential books that captured the literary and written philosophy component of this “Great Conversation”, with the goal of plodding through them over my lifetime.

930 books. Just the books.

The authors, as I read their names, certainly had recognizable names and I could probably guess relatively accurately the eras they wrote in. Could I reasonably hold a discussion or even mention some prominent idea found in them? Maybe 10% of that list. With any level of deeper understanding? Less than that.

But what I could do, without those books, is hold a relatively well thought out conversation about the ideas that most of those books were also exploring. Why? Because that is what cultural memory does for us, without being able to hold an in depth idea about a particular work of art, we can still be able to hold in depth ideas about the particular notion that a work of art was exploring. Because cultural memory goes a great way towards preserving, through the Great Conversation, all those ideas and philosophies and beauties and art, without me having to memorize in rote detail the specifics of each work.

930 books, considered essential to grasp the great conversation of *just* Western Culture. How many paintings & painters? How many concertos and composers? How many sculptures? How many plays and playwrights and stage actors? How many buildings and architects? How many movies and directors and actors and screenwriters?

The interesting thing of course, is how the growth of culture has accelerated due to population, communication and technology. Whereas one generation in the 1000s may have produced a half dozen *iconic* culture producers, one generation in the 1500s produced several dozen *iconic* culture producers. One generation in the 1700s, maybe 100. A generation of the 1900s, easily several hundred.

Producers. Multiply that by 10 for iconic works. And I think I’m underestimating.

I think you are placing an incredible burden on the current generation to preserve *semi-iconic* works and producers that had a very personal impact for your generation, but given a few centuries of time may or may not be seen as truly impactful on the Great Conversation. Think of the half-dozen *iconic* producers of the 1000s AD. There certain were a hundred other producers who were either *semi-iconic* or just plain copy cats or failures. The generation of the 1100s AD didn’t remember THOSE guys. Only the *truly* iconic ones.

I get the impetus to remember as much as possible, but I don’t think the effort should get in the way of follow-on generations adding to the culture by encumbering them with such a load of nostalgic movie-watching that they cannot produce themselves.

I think the real root of your concern isn’t that certain icons are unrecognizable or that the current generation doesn’t have an ability to discuss the ideas of a particular movie and why that particular movie is unique. I think the real problem is the current generation doesn’t WANT to have those conversations nor is it capable of discussing the ideas independent of the works of art. Nor is it capable of gleaning out what IS important about those iconic movies if it ever did get around to watching it.

I think what is missing is not the watching of those movies, but teaching the generation to simultaneously WANT to appreciate older art forms AND to be able to understand the “language” and “grammar” of those older art forms in order to have the *ideas* conversation to contribute to the Great Conversation.

I can’t continue, this has been too much of a stream of consciousness monologue. I wanted to explore the role of the Democratization of Art due to production and communication technology and it’s role in diluting GOOD art while simultaneously, on occasion, producing GREAT art. I wanted to explore the role of education and “culture leaders” in selecting what ought to be seen as GREAT art (and their general failure at doing so). And several other topics.

But I guess we’ll just have to settle with my focus on this being too much of a burden on the modern generation to REMEMBER every last detail of the previous generation’s artistic output. I think the burden is on the generation that wants remembrance fight its own personal attachment to many works and really cull out what IS iconic from what is just semi-iconic. And focus on the excellent contributions.

18 thoughts on “Comment Of The Day: “I Worry About Cary Grant”

  1. I can’t continue, this has been too much of a stream of consciousness monologue. I wanted to explore the role of the Democratization of Art due to production and communication technology and it’s role in diluting GOOD art while simultaneously, on occasion, producing GREAT art. I wanted to explore the role of education and “culture leaders” in selecting what ought to be seen as GREAT art (and their general failure at doing so). And several other topics.

    I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

    Great comment, and a really good point of view to bring up. Tough I’m not even sure that a generation deciding what is iconic is possible. It’s a messy mismash, because if you look at any time period you have works that are iconic and influential, works that are influential but not iconic (the quote about The Velvet Underground only selling 30,000 albums, but everyone who bought one started a band,) and works that are popular at the time but neither influential nor iconic.

    And on top of that, different eras often go back in history and pick up things that had fallen out of fashion or didn’t have much to say to people at the the time they were published, but in a new situation they seem new and daring and exciting and they become iconic of an era to people generations after the fact.

    So, it’s really impossible to say at any given time “THESE are the works that people need to see!” I’m a huge believer in cultural literacy, but cultural literacy shifts as new works are added and old ones are forgotten or rediscovered.

    If I recall, Jack pointed out that most people know Jimmy Stewart from It’s a Wonderful Life because of its association with Christmas, which is true. But it’s equally true that most people couldn’t tell you the plot of any ballet other than The Nutcracker for the same reason. Was The Nutcracker the most popular ballet when it was produced, or the best ballet ever? Was it the one that 19th century ballet goers would have picked out and promoted as iconic? Probably not. We just wander around all December humming “DUT-dada-da-da-da-DA-da-da.”

    But it’s worth noting that every December hundreds of thousands of people actually sit down and watch a ballet. (Not to mention that sales of those tickets prop up ballet companies across the country.)

    So, it kind of boils down to, you take what you get.

  2. A few random thoughts on this (unlike Tex’s thoughtful cogitation):

    At age sixty-six, I’m still trying to make my way through my junior to senior year of high school recommended reading list. Remember those? I finished all of “Recapturing Lost Time,” or, as it was called when I was in high school, “Remembrance of Things Past.” It probably took me at least three years. I’m a slow reader and three pages of good literature are about all I can absorb in a sitting. I’m reading Dostoyevsky now. Finished “The Idiot” and am nearly done with “The Brothers Karamozov.” I’ve read “War and Peace.” My personal conclusions: Proust is tremendous, beats James Joyce all to hell, Dostoyevsky is down right strange and Tolstoy is kind of boring. I’ve re-read a lot of Henry James and T.S. Eliot. They both strike me as being fairly preposterous now that I’ve lived a life myself. So what have I learned? Beats me. But I guess I feel a little cultured.

    Having graduated from college in 1973 and living in New Haven, CT I remember shopping in a little neighborhood grocery store one afternoon. There was no Muzak. Instead, a small plug-in radio sat on top of one of the aisles of stock. The Byrds’ “Eight Miles High” came on the radio. The five or ten people in the store automatically began grooving to the music. Which I thought was kind of funny given the fact we’d spent our high school years making fun of our parents for liking Glenn Miller or Frank Sinatra. Clearly, we were, even at that early stage, becoming our parents.

    Driving around my daughter and her eighth grade classmates in the late ’80s, one of the girls asked the car, “Did you know Paul McCartney was in a band before Wings?”

    After a forty year hiatus, I went back to taking piano lessons at age fifty. I’ve been at it for seventeen or so years. Am I getting much better? Who knows. Is it a great way to commune with the giants of classical music? Yes. Am I a natural? No. But it’s a nice way to spend time. Does it make any more sense than playing golf? Not sure but I did quit golf after fifteen years or so to go back to the piano.

    My forty year old son just informed me he recently watched “The Great Escape” with his nine year old son, saying, “I could never get [my wife] to watch it with me but she did birth me a son who would. Next: ‘The Godfather.'” To which my reaction was “Isn’t the Godfather a little violent?” Of course, my son was famous for saying to his grandmother, when she asked him. age eight, whether the James Bond movies he liked to watch on the Betamax were “a little too violent and sexual,” replied casually, “Sometimes I like a little sex and violence.”

    I guess my conclusion is I’m not as downbeat as Jack. Half the world’s below the fiftieth percentile so lots of people aren’t going to give a rat’s ass about Cary Grant. And as Tex articulates, there’s a heck of a lot to familiarize one’s self with. Nor am I a progressive who thinks humankind is always getting better. It’s not. I’m more an Old Testament/Hebraic guy who has come to believe every generation has to make its own mistakes and learn its lessons the hard way. Lord knows we’re really good at worshiping any number of golden calves.

    In any event, I guess I’ll just keep plodding through the big time literature and music. Lord knows why. It’s a fairly futile exercise. But in the long run, we’re all dead. ‘C’est la vie,’ say the old folks, it goes to show you never can tell.

      • Hah! Hard to make that stuff up, isn’t it? Out of the mouths of twelve year-olds…

        Doubly ironic insofar as once Lennon and McCartney parted ways, they both became saccharine and ineffective. How many pop songs are worse than “Band on the Run?” You’d probably say, “Imagine” is certainly one.

    • “I guess my conclusion is I’m not as downbeat as Jack. Half the world’s below the fiftieth percentile so lots of people aren’t going to give a rat’s ass about Cary Grant. And as Tex articulates, there’s a heck of a lot to familiarize one’s self with. Nor am I a progressive who thinks humankind is always getting better. It’s not.”

      The thing is, I generally share Jack’s lament as it pertains to people being illiterate about culture, art, and ideas in general. I don’t know if I share the lament as it pertains to exactly what needs to be remembered. I know this: we currently aren’t remembering enough or internalizing enough to pass on a rich culture to the next generation, but I don’t know if we aren’t remembering enough film works or dance works…

    • Here

      Apology:

      It’s long. It’s a compilation of several source’s notion of essential or great reading. It was a start, so maybe it has left out some works that should be included, maybe it has some items that aren’t better than clap-trap. But I think it’s a good survey illustrating my concerns I raise in the post.

      I must amend my claim in my post about also needing to memorize a ton of playwrights, because the list includes significant plays & playwrights as well.

      The number 930 is inaccurate. I cannot say which direction it is inaccurate as I cleaned up the list of duplicates I also noticed several lines that mention being compendiums of works.

  3. “Isn’t the Godfather a little violent?”

    You’s want violent? Goodfellas, HBO’s “Boardwalk Empire,” “Deadwood,” “The Sopranos?” Fuggeddaboudit!

    One of the most violent movie scenes I ever saw was in “Revenge,” after Tibey Mendez (Anthony Quinn [The Eskimo?]) found out his “pal” (Kevin Costner’s Jay Cochran) had been schtupping Miryea (the tres comely Madeleine Stowe)

    Trigger Warning: NSFW!!

    “The five or ten people in the store automatically began grooving to the music.”

    “Aural Sex” is the auditory equivalent to a ”secret handshake,” am I right?

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