A Facebook friend really and truly posted this and encouraged people to pass it along.
He apparently thinks it’s reasonable and profound. In fact, the message is obnoxious and unethical.
- It’s a lie. It doesn’t speak for employees of those stores. It certainly doesn’t speak for all of them, as it claims. I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t even written by an employee of any of those stores.
- So someone is posting messages on behalf of people who didn’t consent to it, and sending offensive messages to their employers’ customers. Nice. And my Facebook friend, who once had a functioning mind, thinks this is praise-worthy.
- If I received one of these from the management of a store I patronized, that store would never get my business again. If I was the management of one of these stores and learned that one or more of my employees were involved in circulating such a message, I would terminate those employees for cause.
- This is what happens when the chic thing to do is to call anyone doing their jobs “heroes.” I appreciate workers in grocery stores and other businesses, but then I always do. For example, I talk to them, thank them, and don’t do business with them while talking on my cell phone. I tip them frequently and generously, like I did the guy who was spraying disinfectant on grocery cart handles yesterday. I do not and will not appreciate any employees behaving like I am beholden to them because I bring business to their stores that allows those stores to keep them employed.
- They are getting paid. Lots of people aren’t. Shut up and stop griping. If you don’t want to do your jobs, quit. Plenty of people would love to have them.
- Nobody goes to any of those stores for the fun of it, and people have a right to look around while they are there to see if they need anything else. “Browsing” in a store is called “shopping,” and no sensible person wants to go out to buy stuff these days any more often than they have to. Who hangs out in a Walmart because they don’t have anything else to do?
- But if some desperately lonely individual, obeying the rules, does visit a big box store just to feel people around them and stave off depression, back off.
- Stop asking others to be assholes on your behalf, whoever you are.
- As for the Facebook zombies who happily paste and post anything a Facebook friend tells them to, thus engaging in the cyber version of a chain letter, this is part of the process of allowing social media to make you progressively more stupid and compliant. I constantly see exhortations from “friends” to paste X into a post as a protest, or to prove I read their feed, or to show I like them, or to promote their pet cause. Stop it. If you post something I think is worth circulating, I’ll make that decision on my own, thanks. And if you unilaterally post your billboard on my Facebook page, the odds are high that the billboard is coming down.
Ethics Alarms 
A) I’m sorry I’ve not been on FB in the past 18 months. Twitter’s been a healthier choice for me and I surprisingly get quality feedback! (Thanks to the friends and followers that keep me in check!)
B) Sounds like FB is still the same. So I take it back. I’m NOT sorry I’ve not been on FB in the past 18 months.
Same here Tim.
I used to keep it to conveniently stay in touch with some friends in Cozumel Mx but it got so bad with all the nonsensical shared memes, copy and paste chain letters, or people I don’t know but know someone I know giving me crap about some essay I wrote on various topics they didn’t like.
To me twitter is worse. I have never been good at witty repartee in 140 characters – much more now but still too confining.
Every now and then I want to share something and the various media are the only options. In those cases I just say sharing this ain’t worth the misery of having the account.
The fact this claims to speak for the employees of multiple organizations is a clear indication this is bullshit of the lowest order.
Again, we see the intention is purely cowing people into behavior damaging to the economy; particularly so to small independent construction and contractor markets.
Where are monitors of Facebook when such an obvious lie is being posted and shared? Despicable.
The friend who posted this approvingly is a retired D.C. journalist. In his defense, he is cripplingly Trump Deranged.
Now AOC is advocating for a labor strike against opening the economy. I smell another Saul Alinsky rat connecting these two things.
As far as Facebook monitors are concerned, that’s why the end of the message says to copy and paste, instead of doing a straight Share. Bad posts do that to make it harder for Facebook to take it down by flagging the original post.
I especially love the “co-workers in the break-room struggling to keep their composure” part. Gimme a break, there is no reason to freak out that badly, and anyone that paranoid should see a psychiatrist. Treat your customers like THEY are the disease, and you should be more worried about losing your job than getting the virus.
They deserve the same brush-off as the Antifa dorks out there cosplaying that they’re GIs fighting Nazis. Some people see a group earning well-deserved respect and just want to undeservedly siphon off some of that goodwill for themselves.
Walmart workers don’t have special training that makes them essential to their posts. If any shelf-stocker or cashier is “struggling to keep composure” then they should go home and collect disability or something. Here in California all they’d need to do is claim that they’re afraid of getting the virus, and they’d collect their usual pay plus $600 extra per week; even if they were only working part time. Their employers will be able to carry on without them.
YouTube to the rescue!
Shouldn’t that be WHOM?
And you would be led to believe that only male CEO’s have such insights. If Susan Wojcicki states that anything that contradicts the WHO will be taken down. What will they do if other research institution proffer contradictory statements. I believe there are researchers at least four major academic/medical institutions that take significant issue with a great deal of the conventional wisdom concerning the response to this pandemic.
What is grossly amusing is that she mentions Vitamin C as an “unproven” remedy by the FDA. The FDA does not evaluate nutritional supplements so how would she know if it is not a preventative. No doctors have offered Vitamin C as a curative. It is however an anti-oxidant and has been shown clinically to positively impact Cytokine storms (an out of control immune response) in lung tissue.
What is this “Vitamin C” snake-oil I’m hearing about? Some crazy alt-right conspiracy? I bet Trump has some sort of shady connection to Big Fruit.
I only treat my body with FDA approved Chinese pharmaceuticals.
And Google/YouTube approves, of course. 😉
And there we have Dr. Salk smiling in his grave.
I was at Stop and Shop a week ago, just before the Governor vaguely mandated that facemask be worn where “social distancing is impossible”. Not a single employee wore a mask (except the cleaning crew) wore a mask. I doubt Home Depot employees are significantly more scared and about to break down in the lunch room.
This is the weirdest virtue signaling I’ve ever seen. Proxy virtue signaling? Talk about sticking your nose in other people’s business.
It’s amazing how confident some people are of their knowledge of the situation. Here’s one of my favorite know-it-alls, Jill Filipovic of, you guessed it, Brooklyn, scolding everyone mightily: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/opinions/gop-governors-dangerous-covid-19-response-filipovic/index.html
Then we have a, you know, physician from Stanford: https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation
What has panicked everyone in the 30 to 40 year-old demographic? Why is the reaction to every perceived or imagined “crisis” always absolute hysteria?
There’s this weird Leftist narrative going around that COVID-19 is laying waste to those backward, science-hating Red States, and every single death there is the fault of conservatives, but the actual hot spots like New York and Detroit and New Orleans and New Jersey are just innocent heroic victims of Trump and nobody locally there made any bad decisions so don’t you dare apply that logic to them.
The Stanford physician’s account is fascinating. I will have to look into his claims further.
I don’t know what it is that makes everyone want to go full Karen on their neighbors during such a stressful time but I’m glad I don’t have it.
McDonald’s employees are working. Office Depot is open. Petco is open. Jolibee is open. Starbucks is open. Professional wrestlers are still wrestling. Huge swaths of the economy are open, and the definition of “essential” is very, very generous out there.
Businesses WANT to stay open, because the ones that are closed are going to have to fire people. And close locations. And many of them will never be back.
People are shopping at Walmart now because every family-owned business that normally sells the same stuff is shuttered, their owners told not to complain by celebrities and politicians, and are watching their savings accounts and assets slowly bleed out as chain stores and corporations enjoy being the only option left for all their former customers.
If you don’t like having a job at Walmart, stay home. You’re not a doctor or nurse. You can’t do anything that any Joe off the street couldn’t be trained to do in three days. You will be easily replaced by someone who wants a job. Your business might be essential, but you are not. No one needs you to put yourself at risk.
Isaac, please: I don’t know what it is that makes everyone want to go full Karen on their neighbors …
I thought that “karen” thing was restricted to the UK, where it is infecting way more people than the coronavirus. I was hoping neither of my friends named Karen would come to hear of it. Neither one of them deserve the meanness of it.
ARRGH! I’m pretty sure that’s the first Karen-sighting here. I too was hoping the slur, which I have been happily ignorant of until about a week ago, was a remote phenomenon.
It is rare that I completely disagree with you on something, Jack.
I fear your milk of human kindness has curdled.
Firing for cause? Really? No warning?
The rest is at least arguable, debateable, some I agree with.
But that – a quote regarding Senator McCarthy comes to mind.
Maybe I’ve been reading r/reddit talesfromretail too much. I see those not as well prepared as myself, those not as frugal for decades, those so foolish as to live paycheck to paycheck, blowing any windfall like a drunken sailor, as well as those just mind boggling poor through circumstance as Human Beings, equal to myself.
May you never be so financially desperate so as to work in retail during a pandemic simply because you’ll literally, not figuratively, starve if you don’t.
If I was the manager of an employee from one of those named brands who sent that out, at the very least I would have a long talk to said employee. and ask them to remove that page from their Facebook feed. Not only is the screed itself over the top, but naming the specific brands crosses the line. It attaches their employer’s name to something they didn’t authorize and makes them look bad. And if the employee’s conduct matched the attitude expressed by the post, then yes, they’d most likely be fired.
Bottom line, whether one is in retail by choice or not, one should still do their job to the best of their ability instead of being a whiny snowflake about it. I’ve got a lot of gripes about my job, which I’ve considered writing about, but if I do…I won’t name my employer, I’ll focus on matters that are truly a pain to everyone in my field (instead of my own neuroses), talk about ways to improve those issues, and I would still include the positives about what I do.
That is a reasonable response, even if I’d differ personally. It is arguable, and I could be convinced that it’s correct. Even if that might take more posts on a thread than would be feasible. Similarly, my own arguments against would be infeasibly long.
To be fair (to me), I was not considering the special circumstance of “firing during a job crisis” at all, but rather what is a firing offense generally. As a general proposition, unauthorized insults to any establishment’s customers, online or otherwise, is a firing offense.
I agree that in this particular set of circumstances, a warning MIGHT be appropriate and the more ethical course. However, stores are also hurting. so I MIGHT make the counter-argument that attacking customers like this during a business crisis is even more of a firing offense.
That’s more like it. More thought, less inhumanity and angry reaction. More like the Jack I’m accustomed to.
I’m in an environment where “browsing” is assholery, declared as such by authority, by shopkeepers, and by society in general. Not illegal though, unlike some places. It doesn’t have to be made illegal, most people realise it’s assholery, and just do not do it. Go in, shop, get out (then go back in again if you find you’ve forgotten something, it happens).
Assholery is a right, right up until the time when it endangers others. Drink-driving for example. Too much of it, the boom gets lowered legally, but the real countermeasure is societal disapproval, peer pressure, making it no longer fashionable or acceptable.
Allowances are made for those doing it tough, and suffering psychological trauma from social isolation. Allowances are *also* made for retail workers who are scared witless, far more fearful than the situation warrants. Not just “should be made”, they *are* made. We are all in this together.
Be kind. Don’t be an asshole.
Back in early February, Australia had more deaths and more cases than the whole of the USA. Doubling of cases every 3 days. Same trajectory as Italy, Spain, worse than the US.
We locked down, gradually increasing restrictions, peaking in mid March.
See https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#news
~50,000+ deaths in the US vs ~100 in Australia. 2,000 deaths per day vs 1.
I’m sure some shoppers at Costco, Lowes, Woolworths etc have had their feelings hurt here, but those firms’ management are wholly supportive of posters like this one. I’ll take a pic of one at Woolworths next time I go shopping. Might be a while though, shopping is socially though not legally discouraged unless necessary.
You know, I’m almost never angry, especially not about what people say. I write emphatically. Always have. Page Jack is more emphatic and unequivocal than public vocal Jack, who is more unequivocal than in-private Jack, who is much, much more certain than inner Jack.
Actions speak louder than words. They reflect the real Jack, page, public, and inner.
So depressing–you pick the one passage that I must have had a stroke proofreading, and let four typos sneak through. But that did give me the chance to fix them, so thanks.
It just irritates me that people are treating working while ‘risking coronavirus’ like they are delivering relief supplies to starving orphans through IED laden roads in Iraq. The best data for the last month has shown that this is about as deadly as the flu before the flu vaccine. Commercial fishermen have a similar death rate each year. Yes, some people are at high risk, just like the flu. Yes, more people will get it and there will be more deaths until everyone gets some immunity by getting it once. However, if you are a healthy, 30-year old Lowe’s employee, this doesn’t apply to you.
These people are missing the point. You NEED to be infected with coronavirus. The only way to stop the spread is herd immunity and the only way to do that is for 70+% of the people to get it. All these policies are supposed to slow down the spread so that the medical facilities aren’t overwhelmed. They are NOT to keep you from getting it. The point is for the public to be infected at the fastest rate that can be handled by the hospitals. If the hospitals’ ICU units aren’t near capacity with COVID-19 cases (and they seem to be at ~35% capacity), we are doing it wrong. In light of this, such notes are moral grandstanding and clueless narcissism and they are causing harm.
If we can develop herd immunity before the summer slows transmission, when we have flu+coronavirus season starting in the fall, it won’t be much worse than flu season used to be before the flu vaccine. People calling for governors to not relax restrictions because ‘the infection rate might go up’ need to sit down and shut up because they are part of the problem.
BTW, I probably already had it, you possibly already had it. A ‘flulike’ illness swept through the students in November-January and they tested negative for flu. No one thought anything about it. It probably was coronavirus. Without the hype, it wasn’t even noticeable. If we hadn’t hyped it, you wouldn’t really know about it now. Remember, 2.8 million people die each year in the US. About 500,000 are killed by medical mistakes each year and you don’t notice that much, do you?
You assume that there will be herd immunity. While from the evidence, that seems more likely than not, there is a disquieting amount of evidence, by no means certain, but not comfortingly improbable, that it’s not possible.
That while it is as infectious as smallpox, though not nearly as deadly, with 50 detected strains so far in less than 6 months, re infections strongly suspected in multiple countries, it’s more like influenza. New vaccines required for 10-50 new strains every year, and infection gives immunity to one strain for months, not years, and only for that strain and close relatives.
Now herd immunity may be a thing. A single vaccine may be enough. May. I think it somewhat likely. Betting the farm on that would be …unwise. Idiocy, at this point, with our lack of knowledge. Crossing fingers and hoping for the best, despite the evidence, is a recipe for catastrophe.
There are 4 different coronavirusses endemic in humanity at the moment. One (HKU1) mildly dangerous (I speak from personal experience – I had all the COVID-19 symptoms a year ago from it, narrowly escaped hospitalisation, just really bad luck) None have been eradicated in the last 50 years. Some might become collateral damage, rendered extinct by the immensely inconvenient measures taken against SARS-CoV-2 that have devastated economies. It’s more likely that they will be joined by a fifth over the next year.
The 4 are:
229E (alpha coronavirus)
NL63 (alpha coronavirus)
OC43 (beta coronavirus)
HKU1 (beta coronavirus)
Re: medical mistakes: nope. Flawed study. See https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/are-medical-errors-really-the-third-most-common-cause-of-death-in-the-u-s-2019-edition/?fbclid=IwAR0f38_VFliXWDR8X47KU7qgxD_OUzKePU0cyS7CX3dVvBBtWqd5pDHRG9Y
Your 2.8m figure is spot on though, I usually say “about 3 million”. Kudos.
Even with the flu, if you have had similar flus, your case is likely to be milder. The ‘herd immunity’ from coronavirus doesn’t mean people won’t get it in the Fall, but their cases will most likely be milder. Our whole strategy has been based on getting to herd immunity. The news, the politicians, and a lot of the experts seem to have lost sight of that as they have been transfixed with the power to dictate to people.
Herd immunity is happening. That is why the case totals fall. If people weren’t becoming immune, the case totals would go to ‘everyone infected all the time’. That is also likely why the models are so wrong. We had built up herd immunity before they started keeping track. None of the ‘experts’ has thought to put 40% herd immunity in as the starting point, but that is likely what has happened. In January, a good portion (maybe 30-40%) of the population had already been infected this coronavirus and was immune. Because of that, the case totals never went even close to what the models predicted. It also shows that 30+% of the population could get this without ANYONE IN AUTHORITY NOTICING. In other words, this is not such a bid deal if you aren’t New York City. That is the real story. What is wrong with NYC? Is is just so crowded and filthy that people’s immune systems are on the edge to the point that this overwhelmed them? Were THAT many people actually licking other people’s butts?
https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/nyc-declares-war-on-rim-jobs-in-graphic-health-department-memo/
Michael R. – I think you may have a mistaken impression about how herd immunity works. When most of a population is immune to an infectious disease, this provides indirect protection — or herd immunity (aka herd protection)—to those who are not immune to the disease.
For example, if 80% of a population is immune to a virus, four out of every five people who encounter someone with the disease won’t get sick (and won’t spread the disease any further). In this way, the spread of infectious diseases is kept under control. Depending how contagious an infection is, usually 70% to 90% of a population needs immunity to achieve herd immunity. New Yorkers may achieve this by accident. Or, since we don’t know yet how this virus works (including the level of reinfection), herd immunity may not be an option.
However, that doesn’t mean anyone should try to be infected on purpose. With some other diseases, — I can remember chickenpox before the varicella vaccine was developed: people sometimes exposed their children or themselves intentionally as a way of achieving immunity. For chickenpox, measles, mumps etc., this approach was then reasonable, if still risky. Those diseases had specific courses and outcomes. But the situation for WuFlu is very different. it has unknown courses and outcomes; in the end, it carries a much higher risk of severe disease and even death.
It reminds me of the list some bitter soon-to-be-former employee of Borders Books and Music wrote on a whiteboard and put up right before the whole chain closed in 2011 due to various factors, mostly the expansion of amazon and missing the boat on the e-reader market. I’ll run through it, adding my own commentary:
Things you never knew about Borders Employees:
++ We hate when a book becomes popular simply because it was turned into a movie.
What, so it means you’ll sell more of that book? How does that hurt you?
++ It confused us when we were asked where the non-fiction section is.
It shouldn’t. Anyone older than eight knows the difference between fiction and non-fiction. Yes, non-fiction is pretty broad, but that’s easily answered with a question to try to narrow what the person is looking for.
++ Nicholas Sparks is not a good writer … if you like him, fine, but facts are facts.
No, that’s your opinion, which counts for exactly nothing here. Just who made you, a skinny, bored, can’t-be-bothered-to-do-more-than-the-bare-minimum, clueless twentysomething, an authority on what constitutes a good writer? Your job is to sell books, not critique them, and certainly not to pass judgment on customer choices. You want to become a book critic, see if the local paper is hiring.
++ We greatly dislike the phrase “Quick question.” It’s never true. And everyone seems to have one.
Then get a job flipping burgers. Answering questions is part of the job.
++ Your summer reading list was our summer reading NIGHTMARE. Also, it’s called summer reading, not three days before school starts reading.
Are you seriously telling us that not a single student came in to get the books on their summer reading list in a timely manner? No, you only noticed because inevitably some didn’t, and it became noticeable. Between sleep-away camp, dance camp, football camp, music lessons, and all those other programs parents send their kids to now to give them an edge and/or keep them out from underfoot, it’s inevitable some things will slip through the cracks. It’s not for you to pass judgment on parenting. It’s also not the parents’ fault that the schools assign six, eight or even ten thick, depressing, boring books over the summer, thinking it will keep the kids’ minds sharp and keep them out of trouble, when all it is is a burden.
++ It’s true that we lean to the left and think Glenn Beck is an idiot.
That is irrelevant. I’m here to buy books, not talk politics with you. If I say I want a right-leaning book, then point me to it – WITHOUT gratuitous commentary.
++ We always knew when you were intently reading Better Homes and Gardens, it was really a hidden Playboy.
And just how did you know that? And what were Playboys doing out where just anyone could pick them up?
++ Most of the time when you returned books you read them already — and we were onto you.
And we were onto you – that’s why we were doing it. If your management chooses to have a policy that allows for that, then there is nothing wrong with us taking advantage of it.
++ Limit One Coupon did not mean one for every member of your family — this angered us. Also, we did know what coupons were out.
Then that should have been spelled out. It’s up to management to close loopholes, not for you to seethe about them.
++ It never bothered us when you threatened to shop at Barnes & Noble. We’d rather you do if you’re putting up a stink.
Tell that to your management. I’m sure they’ll love it. By the way, the reason I’m here in the first place is because there’s a chance I can get what I want now. Please don’t bother telling me that you will order a book I ask for but you don’t have and it will get here in “about 7-10 business days.” If it’s not here, I can order it on amazon, it will come right to me, it will get there in probably less time, and it will cost less.
++ “I was just here last week and saw this book there” meant nothing to us. The store changed once a week.
And you need to keep track of it. If it’s no longer there, then tell me where it is. If it’s no longer in stock, then tell me that.
++ When you walked in and immediately said, “I’m looking for a book,” what you really meant to say is, “I would like you to find me a book.” You never looked. It’s fine, it’s our job — but let’s be correct about what’s really happening here.
“It’s fine. It’s our job.” Full stop.
++ If you don’t know the author, title, or genre, but you do know the color of the cover, we don’t either. How it was our fault that we couldn’t find it we’ll never understand.
Admittedly, that’s not a whole lot to go on, unfortunately, poorly informed customers are part of the job.
++ We were never a daycare. Letting your children run free and destroy our section destroyed a piece of our souls.
Oh please. I get that a bookstore isn’t a daycare, but cut the drama. If some parents aren’t controlling their kids and it’s causing a problem, then you need to step up, or, if you’re not empowered to step up, ask management to, and they will tell security to step up.
++ Oprah was not the “final say” on what is awesome. We really didn’t care what was on her show or what her latest book club book was. Really.
Maybe not, but she was influential on what people would think was awesome, and being informed, so that you know what people are going to be coming in for, is part of your job.
++ When you returned your SAT books, we knew you used them. We thought it wasn’t fair — seeing that we are not a library.
We already had that discussion with regard to your generous returns policy. Take it up with management, maybe even corporate. Let me know how you make out, if you aren’t banished to the dust gathering section, and if you still have a job.
Seriously, there is more to the world than making life easy and stress-free for every individual. Every time someone else does something you don’t like is not a license to snark and bitch and complain and feel justified about it like a six-year-old denied another piece of cake or a teen told to turn off the TV and get busy on homework. OK, you Borders folks were out of work, and it sucks to be out of work through no fault of your own because your employer closed. File for unemployment and start looking for another job, stop grumbling about what’s in the past. OK, you home improvement store folks, it sucks to be working in a place where lots of people come during a time of increased risk. It would suck a lot more to be furloughed or let go, which a whole lot of people are.
Seriously, those of us who are out during this time of increased risk are in your store because we need something immediately. We came in to get it immediately, otherwise we’d have ordered it online and bypassed you altogether. However, some things, like a cracked pipe that’s leaking water or a freezer coil that conked out and has put food at risk, can’t wait 2-3 days for an online order to arrive. We’re just as much at risk as you are when we are out and about. Do you think you’re the only ones constantly washing to keep the virus at bay? Do you think you’re the only ones upset about this? Do you think you’re the only ones with spouses worried about you? Rest assured, you aren’t. EVERYBODY is stressed, and EVERYBODY is constantly washing.
Oh, and about worried spouses, this thing is going to end, and you will be able to go back to your pedestrian, secure life of “honey, I’m home” before a half-hearted kiss, a boring dinner, and falling asleep with no action. Tell that to the fireman’s wife who worries one day of every three that a gas explosion or a roof collapse is going to claim her husband. Tell that to the cop’s wife who holds her breath every time “shots fired” or “domestic violence” comes over the scanner. Tell that to the Coast Guard lieutenant’s wife who knows his wife has to go out, but not return.
New York (CNN Business)Public health officials in Aurora, Colorado, ordered a Walmart supercenter to shut down Thursday after a 72-year-old Walmart worker, her 63-year-old husband, and a 69-year-old third-party security contractor for the company died from coronavirus.
Six additional employees at the store tested positive for coronavirus, the Tri-County Health Department in Colorado said Thursday. Three other workers were suspected of having the virus and were awaiting lab results.
The department said it closed the store after receiving complaints from employees and shoppers about the “lack of social distancing, too many people in the store at one time, and employees not wearing masks or face coverings.”
I’ve been to our Walmart in San Diego a couple of times. There’s a queue set up and you have to enter in the garden center and exit out the front, so that people don’t walk past one another at the doors. Social distancing is enforced and spaces are marked on the floor at doors and checkout. In the aisles, you have to be more careful, but they’re limiting the total number of shoppers in the store and I was able to avoid standing close to anyone. I don’t recall seeing anyone without a mask, but I’m not sure whether they were enforced.
I didn’t see any older employees either; for obvious reasons. It’s very easy to go on unemployment here and make as much or more as when working. Disability insurance also allows for being susceptible to the virus.