New York Magazine saluted this treatment of Donald Trump’s son and his wife:
Last Thursday night, middle Trump-son Eric, 32, was out in New York City after leaving Quality Italian on 57th Street with wife Lara Yunaska when they reportedly ran into a gaggle of teens who recognized Trump and proceeded to heckle him.
As they crossed Sixth Avenue a group of about eight teens yelled, “Eric — fuck your father!” A more magnanimous heckler shouted, “Love Trumps Hate!” Eric briefly turned to face them, but then moved on swiftly
The link online was promoted by the above graphic, saying that we should all “appreciate” that Trump and his wife were “heckled” by teens in public.
The more the left and and the media behave this way, the more it is dawning on fair and perceptive Americans how repulsive they are. These people were offended by Donald Trump and thought he was vulgar and boorish, yet they appreciate a man and his wife being harassed and verbally assaulted as they merely go about their lives? These are the people whining about how they are “in fear” of what a Trump administration might bring?
I fear people of influence who encourage punks to harass law-abiding people in public because of their last name or who their parents are.
From Ann Althouse regarding the same article:
“Fuck your father” is despicable harassment, not roasting.
“A roast is an event in which a specific individual, a guest of honor, is subjected to good-natured jokes at their expense intended to amuse the event’s wider audience…. The implication is that the roastee is able to take the jokes in good humor and not as serious criticism or insult, and it is seen by some as a great honor to be roasted. The individual is surrounded by friends, fans, and well-wishers….”
A group of strangers yelling “Fuck your father!” is not good-natured or any kind of honor. There’s nothing the slightest bit friendly about it. We’re told there were “about eight” of these teenagers, accosting Eric (and his wife) as they crossed a street in NYC. This is ugly and should be condemned, but New York Magazine asks us to take a break from our own suffering (over the outcome of the election) and appreciate it. Vile.
Ann is still too mild. During my recent NPR panel about the Trump transition, both of the other panelists referenced “reports” of incidents of harassment of minorities and Muslims that they claimed Donald Trump had “emboldened.” The emboldening argument is clever, though unfair: it holds Trump responsible for unethical and even illegal acts he never encouraged and never endorsed. Now here is New York Magazine, a Trump foe that happily embraces that canard, directly approving hateful harassment of Eric Trump and his wife. That goes far beyond emboldening. That’s incitement.
With its ugly, petulant, juvenile and hypocritical reaction to an unexpected election loss, progressives and Democrats are shattering in plain view the self-constructed myth that they must be on the same side of the ideological divide as the angels (though most of them don’t believe in angels, or religion, for that matter, so I guess I need a different metaphor) in all governance and policy controversies.
What is perhaps more astounding than the hypocrisy is that they don’t even realize how wrong they are. Their ethics alarms are frozen, or rusty, or were never installed, or were installed upside-down. They don’t think cheering a gang of stupid teens terrorizing a couple (yes, eight teens shouting “fuck you” at you is a lot more frightening than your candidate losing the Presidency, and yes, shouting “Love trumps hate!” while being this hateful is proof of stupidity, not magnanimity…) is wrong. They think it is right. They like it. They want to see more of it.
The further people like this are from the levers of power, the safer we should all feel.
______________________
Pointer: Ann Althouse
Ethics Alarms 
Speaking of that NPR piece, I’m surprised you haven’t said anything about the psychologist’s (therapist?) interjection about context. Certainly, context is important, but in her example, she seemed to be justifying bad behavior (the person who was road raging had had a very rough day, so let’s appreciate the context). By her estimation, these teens had been traumatized by Donald’s election, so let’s not judge their actions without the proper context.
Her attitude left my jaw on the floor, but not one word was said about it.
I’d like to know how Chris would treat this New York Magazine story with his students.
It might be a pretty good lesson about bias, tone, and proper responses to bullying. Thanks for the idea!
I am totally hesitant to tar every Democrat or progressive with the brush of the brutish behavior of this mob of youth, but one thing occurs to me — If the progressive left is cheering on this type of behavior, can this country ever recover from this election?
We have seen the demonstrations subside, for now at least. They are sure to come back around inauguration time. But is this kind of behavior going to become not only socially acceptable on the left, but actually a model for other young people?
If so, how do we salvage any civility at all? Who could blame the right for responding in kind, and how long before this escalates to violence?
If there are no longer any adults left on one side of the argument, cooler heads cannot prevail.
There’s no coming back from this.
If that’s right, what do you suppose it means in the long run? Civil war, 1968, what?
If we cannot find any common ground at all, how can there be anything but constant conflict?
I’m not asking these questions rhetorically. In order for a country to heal from any political wound, there has to be people on both sides willing to work on the damage. I might argue that the left is signaling that no healing is possible unless the right totally capitulates to them, based on what I’m hearing and seeing. I find that capitulation unlikely, given the overwhelming success of the right in this election.
This is the time that I lament the loss of centrists in both parties, because they provided the only means of communication between the two sides. With an almost solid lineup of ideologues, it’s hard to imagine anything but internecine political, and ultimately physical warfare. In my experience, when words cease to bring sufficient attention, violence is the next resort.
I wish I knew.
You would, of course argue that the left… always the left. That doesn’t help but maybe we can consider some grievances from the left. I don’t ask you to agree with them, just consider.
In whatever order they come to me…
Merrick Garland. The refusal to consider any Obama nominee before one was even named combined with agitation to not consider any Clinton appointee when it looked like she’d win.
Add in birtherism, Most of the elected right stayed away though even there some dodged the question while Trump went at it whole-hog. That’s two very overt attempts to delegitimize President Obama. I’m angry.
Trump’s constant complaints that any time things don’t go his way, it’s rigged, there’s something going on, it’s cheating.
With all that attempting to delegitimize, what motivation is there to treat Trump as legitimate? For one thing, it appears to have worked out for the last person to try it. For another, whatever Jack thinks of tit for tat, it’s very human.
That brings us to something else very human, fear. Trump used it along with resentment. I’ll never know how afraid his voters really were/are since the fears he tries to gin up aren’t mine and empathy can only take you so far. I know my own fears though and Trump touches most of them.
Lack of respect for women’s bodies scares me. I’ve been grabbed by strangers and terrified. We were moving away form that, now will it ratchet back up?
What about LGB and even T community? Things were going very well except for employment non-discrimination, are we going back to the 70s or even the 60s? Maybe not, but then there’s Pence to consider. Giving up marriage or even going back to sodomy laws will not be accepted.
For awhile it looked like gains were to be made in police accountability. You need not agree but from where I sit, they’ve been able to act with impunity. I am afraid of police because they can do what they wish to me and their word would always be taken.
If you think I’d stand for the outlawing of abortion, forget about it.
Banning people from entering the country based on their religion? Having a registry? I’m Jewish, the very idea of doing that for any religion hits really damn close to home. I am very afraid.
Those chants of ‘lock her up’ frighten me, since I too opposed and still oppose Trump.
And before anyone says my fears are unfounded, remember I’m going by Trump’s and Pence’s actual words and policy proposals.
If you wish to call that total capitulation then yes, we’re at an impasse and the price of unity is too high to pay for either side. Eventually the tree of liberty gets watered because all other options are exhausted.
Look at my short list and tell me if there’s common ground, your answer will tell you how far this will go. Can you convince me that Trump and Pence didn’t say the things that scare me? Can you convince me that those who tried to deny legitimacy to their opponents are themselves entitled to it?
Or maybe Republicans stick to cutting taxes for the obscenely wealthy and poisoning the environment and we get through this. Who’s to say?
Seriously people, couldn’t you have just confirmed Garland and then picked Jeb!?
You do know that reversing Roe v. Wade (which is not going to happen, as bad a decision as it was originally) won’t “outlaw” anything, right?
I know an Indiana lawmaker is introducing a bill to criminalize all abortions.
Well, he can’t do it until Roe v. Wade is overturned, and that’s not happening for years, if ever. So it’s meaningless. But stupid.
I can’t address all of these together, so I’ll address the more substantial ones:
Merrick Garland — had their positions been reversed, the Democrats would’ve done exactly the same thing, and I wouldn’t have blamed them one bit. I think it is reasonable to defer a Supreme Court vacancy in an election year until after the election, no matter which party is in power.
Besides, you may wind up thanking Mitch McConnell. Garland is far too deferential to government, and a Trump nominee will be more skeptical. Garland might have approved Obama’s executive overreach, and that would’ve arrogated to Trump. A Trump nominee probably won’t, and that should be a cause for celebration on the left — would you want Trump with that much power? Not me.
Both parties used fear, but only one party used condescension and disdain, and continues to use that to this day. It didn’t work for Romney and Clinton failed to learn that lesson. A lack of respect for the office of the President has infected the left because of the new occupant. This sort of circumstantial homage to the U.S. governmental system angers many on the right and in the center, and it should.
I think the LGBTQ community is safe under Trump, at least insofar as overturning gay marriage. As long as Kennedy is one of the nine and the split is 5-4, I’d say that Obergefell v. Hodges is safe. It was a very poorly-reasoned decision, but there is no real hue and cry on the right to see it reversed. Too many people on both sides see the humanity of the people it effects, even if they disagree with their life choices.
Forcing religious bakeries to bake cakes for gay weddings and similar might wind up a casualty, though. And probably should.
I consider Roe v. Wade stare decisis, and I think a Trump court will as well, absent a liberal opening. After that, I just don’t know. I hate the decision, but it has been around so long, overturning it would do too much damage to the country.
But if it is overturned, abortion will not be outlawed federally. Some states surely will, but others will keep it legal. I consider that highly unlikely, although I do understand your concerns, and share them for similar reasons.
I hope the Muslim registry does not happen. Very bad idea, and likely unconstitutional. But registering entrants from terrorist-supporting countries (regardless of their religion) does not seem quite as problematic to me.
Personally, I don’t think any rational person on the right would ask for capitulation, even though those on the left manifestly did when they were placed in power in 2008. I do think we should try to engage each other and attempt to compromise, but given the makeup of the two parties, I am not sanguine.
With respect to watering the tree of liberty, I would respectfully suggest that the gun-fearing, peace-loving left is ill qualified to rebel, and rousing up the armed-to-the-teeth “kill a commie for Christ” element of the right is not the best idea. Just sayin’.
Obviously, I’m rooting for us all to try to get along and fight in the arena of ideas. For the last eight years, that arena has been home court for the left. Now, the situation is reversed. The right was told that elections have consequences eight years ago, and were mocked by the famous “I won.” Let’s hope the right, now in power, handles that with more dignity and respect for their opponent, but with Trump at the top, it’s certainly fair to have major doubts.
Great post, Glenn.
I would have blamed them. It wasn’t September, it was February.
It is my fondest wish that that seat remain empty until Trump’s successor is sworn in as an object lesson to never fuck around like that again. Our president doesn’t get to fill a seat then neither does theirs.
On what planet did you spend the past 8 years? How has President Obama been treated? Our president doesn’t get respect, neither does theirs.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2016/11/19/gays-can-be-reformed-just-like-arsonists-trumps-new-domestic-policy-adviser-has-said/
Unacceptable. Full stop. I’ll take the civil war.
Bush 43 tried it, went over like a lead balloon, pissed off lots of people. Got cancelled. (Or technically all the countries were removed so it’s a list of zero places)
We’re not living in an age of states raising militias to go fight. We live in an age of high performance aircraft, infantry in the field is meat for the grinder. In this day and age if there’s a rebellion it’ll come in the for of an angry mob throwing bombs, losing thousands to militarized police and still coming. Storming state houses. It’ll be with impromptu people’s courts and governor’s being hanged. It’ll be the president hiding in an undisclosed location while the White House is burned. A bacchanalia of violence with people on each side going hunting the other.
And that word, other will be an important one because hunters on either side won’t consider their prey human.
Basically the worst thing that can happen short of someone pressing a button and burning us all with the nuclear fire.
Welcome to the nightmares I’ve been having since the 9’th. (Except for last night where it was a nightmare of one of Zoe’s friends attacking me in a bar. Weird I know.)
And maybe the horse will sing.
*raises a glass* To forlorn hopes.
“It is my fondest wish that that seat remain empty until Trump’s successor is sworn in as an object lesson to never fuck around like that again. Our president doesn’t get to fill a seat then neither does theirs.”
You’re having an ethics breakdown or a spontaneous regression. “Nyah,nyah,nyah!”
“Bush 43 tried it, went over like a lead balloon, pissed off lots of people. Got cancelled. (Or technically all the countries were removed so it’s a list of zero places)”
See above. When it’s convenient, “it was tried, it was unpopular, upset people” become arguments. None of them are, of course. What a list of all the measures and reforms this could be said about?
This isn’t the first time the resident cunt and feminist bitch from hell has had a complete and total ethical and emotional meltdown, if you care to go back to the death of Scalia thread, when she and Sparty were spewing all kinds of hateful gobbledegook that had nothing to do with the seating of a new justice and everything to do with hatred of the process, how it was going to play out, and the folks responsible for not quickly confirming another justice whose chief qualification was to be a reliable vote on the left. Sparty at least only did it the one time and it was out of character. This is at least the third time.
“I would have blamed them. It wasn’t September, it was February.
It is my fondest wish that that seat remain empty until Trump’s successor is sworn in as an object lesson to never fuck around like that again. Our president doesn’t get to fill a seat then neither does theirs.”
Actually he does, thanks to a fairly brave gambit on the part of the same senator whose balls you wanted to stomp into a paste and set on fire and whose home city you wanted to pull a Bridgegate on. The process is the process, and if it doesn’t sit well with you then I suggest you call a constitutional convention or get one of your legislators to propose an amendment.
“On what planet did you spend the past 8 years? How has President Obama been treated? Our president doesn’t get respect, neither does theirs.”
The same planet you did, you pile of shit. He’s gotten the well-deserved contempt of those he refused to work with from the get-go and who he expected to surrender before he would even talk to them. Obama didn’t give a damn what those opposed to him thought, and neither will Trump. Your respect for him is the farthest thing from his mind.
“Unacceptable. Full stop. I’ll take the civil war.”
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it, and everything that goes with it. Do you really think your right to kill a gestating human life that came to be because you had to have a groovy fuck and didn’t take the proper precautions is a good hill to die on?
” We’re not living in an age of states raising militias to go fight. We live in an age of high performance aircraft, infantry in the field is meat for the grinder. In this day and age if there’s a rebellion it’ll come in the for of an angry mob throwing bombs, losing thousands to militarized police and still coming. Storming state houses. It’ll be with impromptu people’s courts and governor’s being hanged. It’ll be the president hiding in an undisclosed location while the White House is burned. A bacchanalia of violence with people on each side going hunting the other.
And that word, other will be an important one because hunters on either side won’t consider their prey human.
Basically the worst thing that can happen short of someone pressing a button and burning us all with the nuclear fire”
We’re living in a world where one high-performance drone can reduce your head to a wet pink cloud, and probably will if you keep spewing this Timothy McVeigh-esque craziness. If infantry in the field is in fact meat for the grinder, as Saddam’s army found out very quickly when they were caught out by the USAF, USN, and USMC pilots, what makes you think a bunch of angry but afraid of guns lefties trying to play Bolshevik will do any better? Do you really think this movement could take on thousands of local and state police with military grade equipment and helicopters, thousands more federal agents with even better gear, and finally the regular military, with if-you-hear-them-you’re-already-dead jets, armored vehicles they’ve learned a thing or three about making impervious to attack, and thousands of expert riflemen guaranteed of shooting your head off up to 1000 feet away?
No mob ever got near any statehouse even in the 1960s, and it isn’t happening now. Just for the record only four governors have ever been killed in the entire history of this country, one a territorial governor killed by Indians, another shot dead after a disputed election in 1900 (when security was minimal), another killed by a bomb in 1905 because he dared break a lawless mining strike, and of course Huey Long, shot dead by a political enemy who was promptly riddled with bullets by his bodyguards. I’m sure you recall the last time anyone touched the White House was 1814, over 200 years ago, when the British tried to destroy Washington in retaliation for the burning of York and Port Dover. No pathetic people’s movement is getting anywhere near it, leave alone sending the President into hiding.
You accuse me of being creepy for talking about roughing people up face to face who’ve offended me, and I must admit, it IS creepy to talk about beating someone up because you are angry. However, this apocalyptic fantasy, redolent of the French Revolution and the Portuguese Revolution and the Bolshevik Revolution is a hell of a lot creepier.
There are very few people on this site who I would consider evil, but this kind of talk puts you there. You’re either evil or you’re an arrested two-year-old, you want what you want, when you want it, or you want to lay waste to the whole nation.
I don’t have any nightmares. I sleep like a baby, trust our system, and have no fear of a liberal or conservative uprising. If violence comes, I’ll defend my family and the ideal of our country to the best of my ability. Hopefully, it won’t, but if it does, it does. I’ve done it before, and I’ll gladly do it again. In the end, I feel we’ll come out of it stronger just as we did back in 1861, whether I survive it or not. Death comes to us all, and who wants to live forever? Not I.
The result of the election was never going to be a happy one for me. I have learned to live with that. Some good and some ill will likely come of it, and I pray for the former and to be spared the latter.
But I’m not going to hang any governors, or assail any capitals with pitchforks. Wasn’t going to in 2008 and 2012, either. Instead, I’m just going to live my life as well as I can and hope our Constitution restrains the worst of the rabble-rousers on both sides.
Yeah, this is a serious concern.
We don’t. It’s the right’s turn to start kicking ass now. Be afraid.
The way the left is rationalizing the behaviors of the extremely illogical thugs in the left, this will not stop until there is literally blood in the streets.
Such a tolerant bunch these modern day Liberal & Progressives are.
For a magazine to approve of this kind of conduct by some thuggish teenagers puts them on about the same level as Der Stürmer which was published during the Nazi area in Germany to encourage assaults on Jews.
I hope those who woke up and voted are staying awake to witness how one side treats innocent scapegoats when they don’t get their way. Most folks are decent, and are repulsed by this sort of thing even if only under the “I would not like to be treated this way” optic.
“Some” progressives and democrats, Jack. Some.
Lots.
“What is perhaps more astounding than the hypocrisy is that they don’t even realize how wrong they are. ”
Do they even know what wrong is?
A friend of mine related how his wife gave him an ultimatum, “Get over your anger, or I will leave you.” As we talked, he described to me that during the course of a personality type seminar, the instructor explained to him exactly how he was being driven by anger. My friend shared with me his astonishment at this revelation and how accurate it was. He related how he had never understood himself to have been angry- only righteous. That is, that when he felt that he was “right”, he did not perceive himself as angry and hateful but rather, the teller/defender/upholder of plain truth on a given matter and the extremity of expressions necessary to convey plain truth were not anger/hate so much as an indicator of how wrong the other person was.
Jack,
Let me start off by saying, whatever heckling donald trump may deserve (and I agree the cries of Armageddon are overblown – also, I’m not suggesting he deserves any, only if he did), his family is (or should be) completely off limits.
“… it holds Trump responsible for unethical and even illegal acts he never encouraged and never endorsed.”
Agreed (really), although I seem to remember you making similar claims in the wake of the NYC and Dallas police shootings with regard to BLM spokespeople and associated “race-baiters” (I use quotation marks not to suggest sarcasm, only because it was your word, not mine).
I will say in defense of the “emboldening” argument, while he has never called for or supported violence, his boorish and excessively rude manner throughout the campaign and the rest of my life have nevertheless emboldened assholes to assume this is how one can (or should) get ahead. Moreover, hateful rhetoric by itself isn’t dangerous, but when it’s spoken by one running for the presidency or a president-elect, it can encourage others to take it further. This goes back to the “lack of leadership” (again, only quoting your word) displayed by Obama and how (you have argued) that it leads to a breakdown of leadership at all levels.
This is not intended as a “gotcha” (also not sarcasm, I only use the word the media is fond of) question, I’m only asking for you to please clarify the difference (the excessive parenthesizing is so this message is not misinterpreted as is often the case).
I will give Donald Trump the chance to be a good leader, but I will not give him the “benefit of the doubt” until he gives me reason to. I will support the democratic process that elected him and the peaceful transition of power, but I will not salute his swearing in nor will I refer to him with respect until it’s earned. He will be the President of the United States, but donald trump (the man) is nothing more than the asshole-elect and deserves every ugly look and side-ways glances (ONLY looks, not calls to violence, not heckling his family) he gets.
-Neil
PS: How did you keep your brain case intact when the woman in the NPR interview likened Trump’s election to 9/11 (or, rather, she said she’d HEARD others liken it to 9/11)? I hate the man beyond all reason, but the two events aren’t even in the same league, much less ballpark.
To take the last first: I was in a different locale, and my head did explode. I wasn’t given a chance to respond, and they don’t like you to interrupt. Her comments were generally head-blowing.
As to the rest: When I can’t access a computer, I am often surprised to find the the threads are deeper and more lively absent any input from me. I have an answer for you, but I’m interested to see if anyone else want to handle it. I’ll wait a bit.
Sadly this is not just a Democratic issue (though I know this blog loves to take the shot at them, and they definitely do deserve it sometime) In my nieces high school, in a predominantly Republic stronghold, the teens there have gotten into the “in thing” to do in school. Which is to harass the hispanic students and yell at them to “go home and build the wall”. I’ve also seen plenty of other posts from both sides acting in this behavior to one another.
I will disagree with one thing. By the very nature of performing his actions, and succeeding at it, Trump DID encourage this type of behavior. Trump used the act of throwing out slurs, insults, degrading people as a means to cater to some people. And it helped get him elected to the greatest position in the country. That, in itself, is encouragement on his part. Is it a SPOKEN encouragement, no He did not SAY go out and say degrading, insulting statements to others. But he did it, often, and with success behind it. It was obviously a tool he valued, and used, to get to where he is.
“I fear people of influence who encourage punks to harass law-abiding people in public because of their last name or who their parents are.”
While I don’t think he should be harassed, it wants just because of his last name or who his parents are. He took a very active role in his fathers campaign for President. Like it or not he has made himself a public figure and shit like this can go along with it.
And his wife???
He should have thought of that before he decided to get actively involved in the campaign.
I’m not saying he should be harassed but he cant become a public figure then hide behind his wife being there.
Refocus. The issue is the magazine applauding the harassment. He should be able to take his wife out without worrying about assholes. You surely cannot be saying that he should censor his activities to avoid unjustifiable abuse, and it’s his fault if he is harassed?
How about the recent “Rape Melania” signs?
Whoa there, TB. Was David Axelrod ever harrassed coming out of restaurant in 2008? Valerie Jarrett? Anyone? Beuhler?
Any public figure is a legitimate target for Hectoring in public?
Celebrities aren’t people! Let’s not humanize them or anything!
Donald Trump’s son and daughter-in-law are celebrities?
I wish people would be nicer to Odo…