This Is The Heartbreak Of Anti-Trump Brain Loss…

We already beheld the sad spectacle of one of the nation’s most distinguished and respected legal minds beginning to crumble under the dual attacks of anti-Trump hysteria from his peer group, and the inexplicable power of social media to make wise men and women behave like idiots..here (my linking function isn’t working this morning: http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/in-dumbest-move-famous-law-prof-broke-ethics-rules-in-apparent-shot-at-trump/), when famed Harvard Law scholarLawrence Tribe breached a basic and legal ethics principle by issuing a tweet implying that Donald Trump had once asked him about a legal matter, and wouldn’t you all love to know what it was?  When I mention this to lawyers in my legal ethics seminars, they literally laugh and roll their eyes. They know lawyers can’t do this: why didn’t the famous Constitutional Law prof from Harvard Law School have his well-oiled  ethics alarms go off? It was because, I explain, Twitter often turns lawyers and other professionals into fools, and what brains social media hasn’t chewed up can be swallowed by anti-Trump madness.

That was before the election, and poor Tribe’s deterioration has  continued. Three days after the President was sworn in, Tribe joined a group of deranged lawyers and the early stirrings of the “resistance” to sue Trump for violating the obscure Emoluments Clause, which, sane and objective authorities agree, was not intended to apply to a President who has his name on hotels, making the claim that this unprecedented situation constitutes a government official receiving prohibited payments from foreign governments. The theory is not just a stretch, but an embarrassingly  partisan one that a respected Constitutional law scholar should have been mocking, not joining.

Now Tribe has really gone around the bend, and may soon be seen wandering aimlessly through Harvard Square, wearing a Red Sox cap, muttering to himself and carrying a crudely lettered sign.

On April 22, Tribe tweeted out a story from a left-wing conspiracy website called the Palmer Report, well known for feeding progressive rumors and  false claims . This one stated, “Report: Trump gave $10 million in Russian money to Jason Chaffetz when he leaked FBI letter,” referring to the infamous pre-election letter sent by former FBI director James Comey to members of Congress announcing that Hillary’s e-mails had been found on Anthony Weiner’s laptop.

The “report” was a now-deleted tweet by a Twitter user named LM Garner, who describes herself in her Twitter biography as “Just a VERY angry citizen on Twitter. Opinions are my own. Sometimes prone to crazy assertions. Not a fan of this nepotistic kleptocracy”—in other words, “I am a wacko.” Garner has 257 followers and has tweeted more than 25,000 times from her account.

Never mind: the accusation suggests dire and impeachable conduct by the President AND a Republican member of Congress, so that’s enough for poor Larry.  “I don’t know whether this is true,” Tribe  tweeted, “But key details have been corroborated and none, to my knowledge, have been refuted. If true, it’s huge.”

“If it’s true, it’s huge” is a  calling card of a conspiracy theorist.

Tribe explained to a bewildered BuzzFeed, which normally likes Trump hysteria accusations but had even its rusty ethics alarms triggered by this silliness,  that he was aware of the Palmer Report’s dubious reputation. Still, he added, “When I share any story on Twitter, typically with accompanying content of my own that says something like ‘If X is true, then Y,’ I do so because a particular story seems to be potentially interesting, not with the implication that I’ve independently checked its accuracy or that I vouch for everything it asserts.”

Apparently the former Harvard legal guru, often mentioned as a SCOTUS nomination-in-waiting, no longer can discern that credible authorities circulating irresponsible gossip and rumors from partisan warriors gives their theories credibility and unwarranted distribution that spread disinformation, which is to say doing so is irresponsible and an abuse of authority.

This display is very sad, as have been similar episodes from once-respectable historians, journalists, professors, lawyers, scientists and legal ethicists since November 8 documented elsewhere on the blog. (I’ll try to add the links when I get back home and off my dying laptop.) I think a charity for the treatment of the victims of Anti-Trump Brain Loss needs to be established, with public service announcements showing a solemn spokesman standing next to Larry as he furiously sends out hysterical anti-Trump tweets. “This is the tragedy of Anti-Trump Brain Loss,” he can intone. “Once, Lawrence Tribe  was a productive member of society. Today, because of the cruel ravages of ATBL, he spends his days laughing at Alec Baldwin and quoting Maxine Waters. Won’t you help Larry ATBL victims like him by sending a generous donation to the address you see on the screen?”

_______________________

Pointer: Professor Jacobsen (http://legalinsurrection.com/2017/05/buzzfeed-asks-why-is-harvard-law-prof-larry-tribe-spreading-conspiracy-theories/)

158 Comments

Filed under "bias makes you stupid", Ethics Alarms Award Nominee, Ethics Train Wrecks, Government & Politics, Law & Law Enforcement, Professions

158 responses to “This Is The Heartbreak Of Anti-Trump Brain Loss…

  1. At least Brian was found.

  2. When I read stories like this my hope goes to zero that those that support the Democratic Party will someday pull their heads outta their asses. Some of these kind of stories drive my hope well into the negative numbers and some lend real credence that many lefties are irretrievably broken from reality and this is more of a permanent trend which leads me to ask; is there truly some kind of mental disorder at work here in the Liberal/Progressive Hive Mind?

    Last November I started using the phrase Traumatic Political Stress Disorder (TPSD) to describe what I’m witnessing from the political left after the election; unfortunately, there is some real truth in that phrase! Recently I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about the underlying reasons why I picked that particular phrase to describe what I am witnessing; I chose that phrase because I recognize it. I have close personal friends that are suffering from Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) due to their extended time spent in direct combat with the enemy and what I’m seeing an hearing from many people on the political left is symptomatically similar.

    Why would I say such a horrible thing? Read for yourself, the link is provided.

    —————————————————–

    Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)

    Symptoms
    Post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms may start within one month of a traumatic event, but sometimes symptoms may not appear until years after the event. These symptoms cause significant problems in social or work situations and in relationships. They can also interfere with your ability to go about your normal daily tasks.

    PTSD symptoms are generally grouped into four types: intrusive memories, avoidance, negative changes in thinking and mood, and changes in physical and emotional reactions. Symptoms can vary over time or vary from person to person.

    Intrusive memories

    Symptoms of intrusive memories may include:
    • Recurrent, unwanted distressing memories of the traumatic event

    • Reliving the traumatic event as if it were happening again (flashbacks)

    • Upsetting dreams or nightmares about the traumatic event

    • Severe emotional distress or physical reactions to something that reminds you of the traumatic event

    Avoidance
    Symptoms of avoidance may include:
    • Trying to avoid thinking or talking about the traumatic event

    • Avoiding places, activities or people that remind you of the traumatic event

    Negative changes in thinking and mood
    Symptoms of negative changes in thinking and mood may include:
    • Negative thoughts about yourself, other people or the world

    • Hopelessness about the future

    • Memory problems, including not remembering important aspects of the traumatic event

    • Difficulty maintaining close relationships

    • Feeling detached from family and friends

    • Lack of interest in activities you once enjoyed

    • Difficulty experiencing positive emotions

    • Feeling emotionally numb

    Changes in physical and emotional reactions
    Symptoms of changes in physical and emotional reactions (also called arousal symptoms) may include:
    • Being easily startled or frightened

    • Always being on guard for danger

    • Self-destructive behavior, such as drinking too much or driving too fast

    • Trouble sleeping

    • Trouble concentrating

    • Irritability, angry outbursts or aggressive behavior

    • Overwhelming guilt or shame

    For children 6 years old and younger, signs and symptoms may also include:
    • Re-enacting the traumatic event or aspects of the traumatic event through play

    • Frightening dreams that may or may not include aspects of the traumatic event

    Intensity of symptoms
    PTSD symptoms can vary in intensity over time. You may have more PTSD symptoms when you’re stressed in general, or when you come across reminders of what you went through. For example, you may hear a car backfire and relive combat experiences. Or you may see a report on the news about a sexual assault and feel overcome by memories of your own assault.

    When to see a doctor
    If you have disturbing thoughts and feelings about a traumatic event for more than a month, if they’re severe, or if you feel you’re having trouble getting your life back under control, talk to your doctor or a mental health professional. Getting treatment as soon as possible can help prevent PTSD symptoms from getting worse.

    —————————————————–

    I personally think it’s quite likely that PTSD (or TPSD as I call it) is wide-spread within the political left and it’s becoming more self-evident daily.

    • John Billingsley & dragin_dragon,

      What say you?

    • The sentence above…

      “Why would I say such a horrible thing? Read for yourself, the link is provided.”

      …should be updated to…

      “Why would I say such a horrible thing; well, read for yourself the symptoms for Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) from the Mayo Clinic website (the link is provided) and compare that to what you’ve seen and heard from the left since the election.”

      …that better reflects the complete thought.

    • A Comment of the Day, as soon as I get back to the office!

    • joed68

      “… is there truly some kind of mental disorder at work here in the Liberal/Progressive Hive Mind?”

      Yes. I’ve been saying it on this site for years, and it looks like events of this past year have finally vindicated me.

      • joed68

        I may have used “vindicated” improperly.

        • joed68

          I’d be happy to loan you my copy.

        • “Only an irrational agenda would advocate a systematic destruction of the foundations on which ordered liberty depends. Only an irrational man would want the state to run his life for him rather than create secure conditions in which he can run his own life. Only an irrational agenda would deliberately undermine the citizen’s growth to competence by having the state adopt him. Only irrational thinking would trade individual liberty for government coercion, sacrificing the pride of self-reliance for welfare dependency. Only a madman would look at a community of free people cooperating by choice and see a society of victims exploited by villains.” [From The Liberal Mind; The Psychological Causes of Political Madness by Lyle H. Rossiter, Jr., MD]

          Socialists, Communists, Fascists, Totalitarians, Dictators, etc, etc., don’t think they are irrational, in fact they think they are the rational ones and anyone that disagrees with their world view is irrational; propaganda is King to these kinds of people. Democrats and Progressives are becoming like these people.

          • ”Only a madman would look at a community of free people cooperating by choice and see a society of victims exploited by villains.”

            Please refrain from gender-specific references & pronouns, they remind me, et al, of the EVIL White Y-Chromosomal-fueled Patriarchy that shackle the minds and bodies of us all.

            Wait a minute…madman actually marginalizes and demeans the EVIL White Y-Chromosomal-fueled Patriarchy that shackle the minds and bodies of us all.

            Never mind.

            FWIW, Cornelius Hieronymus Gotchberg, someone I’m proud to list as a friend, mentor, and business partner, has made the skin of innumerable Lefties positively crawl by quoting the eminently quotable Dr. Lyle H. Rossiter, Jr.

            • Paul W. Schlecht wrote, “FWIW, Cornelius Hieronymus Gotchberg, someone I’m proud to list as a friend, mentor, and business partner, has made the skin of innumerable Lefties positively crawl by quoting the eminently quotable Dr. Lyle H. Rossiter, Jr.”

              True, very true. 🙂

  3. To paraphrase what my Dear 92 Year old Father always said about smoking: ”Can you think of any other reasons not to participate in social media?”

  4. Junkmailfolder

    I’m sure Trump is just dying for a chance to pretend this guy is going to get a nomination for a Supreme Court spot, only to be denied in front of the whole nation.

    • That is exactly what I have come to expect from Trump… He uses the Left’s trickery against them. It is what makes them so crazy: how dare he!

      • During the Presidential campaign I was saying that Trump is fully engaged in using the worst of the worst Liberal tactics and he put them on steroids. I think that same general theme can be applied to his tactics in general.

        • Unfortunately, Z, you have been proven correct by the evidence at hand. Trump out-snakes the Leftists.

          • It’s almost as if Trump observed Liberal/Progressive tactical behaviors, learned that the tactical behaviors were effective, and applied what he learned by putting the tactical behaviors to work to his advantage.

            • I would enhance that, Z, to including his proven business tactics of shock and awe, sucker punches, and the ever clever heel hook trip ploy to confound his enemies. He takes their tactics further than they did, because he is not a member of the club, with the unwritten rules about how far one can go.

  5. Other Bill

    I think ATBL is a pre-existing condition! It won’t be covered once Obamacare is modified by Congress pursuant to a bill people will be able to read. Yikes! I’m terrified. Better run an ad on that!

    • Other Bill

      LT’s publicity shot is hilarious. Haw many years do you think it’s been since he actually cracked a book instead of having a student do all his research? I’d say the over/under is forty.

      • Phlinn

        He famously came out in favor of the individual right interpretation of the second amendment despite it being against his personal preferences. I’m certain he checked the material himself before doing so…

        • Other Bill

          He appears to have been sane as recently as 2014. From his wiki page:

          In 2014, Tribe was retained to represent Peabody Energy in a suit against the Environmental Protection Agency. Tribe argued that EPA’s use of the Clean Air Act to implement its Clean Power Plan was unconstitutional.[25] Tribe’s legal analysis has been criticized by other legal commentators, including fellow Harvard Law School professors Richard J. Lazarus and Jody Freeman, who described his conclusion as “wholly without merit”. His advocacy for corporations like Peabody has been criticized by some legal experts

        • joed68

          Wow! Very commendable, and unexpected.

  6. Glenn Logan

    As a snide observation, ATBL seems even more virulent than BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome).

    Of course, if Pence were to become president, do we really think Tribe would breathe a sigh of relief and stop the madness? Or would the conspiracy theories and fake news that would doubtless paint Pence as the Christian equivalent of a dictator Ayatollah consume what remains of Tribe’s once-formidable brain?

    I think I know the answer, and it is discouraging.

    • Other Bill

      Glenn, they’d keep impeaching people until they got to a Democrat. I think the Senate’s Sergeant at Arms is a Dem. I think he’s number forty-three in line to the presidency. That’s our man. All that needs to happen is for the GOP house and Senate to impeach and convict forty-three guys and the Dems are back in power. Piece of cake.

      • Slow yer roll there Hoss, stranger things have happened.

        The Cubs winning the World Series, Tom Brady proving that cheaters DO prosper, and Marion Barry getting reelected as Mayor of D.C. come to mind.

        • Other Bill

          You’re right, Paul. Deceased Mayors of D.C. are number forty-one on the list! Caramba!

          • “Deceased Mayors of D.C. are number forty-one on the list!”

            Where in the line of succession might we find one whose level of deepened dastardly despicable depravity leads them to expect 2, yes TWO, scoops of ice cream when mere mortals are limited to the loneliest number?

    • Glenn Logan wrote, “As a snide observation, ATBL seems even more virulent than BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome).”

      Their Traumatic Political Stress Disorder won’t allow them to stop.

  7. Harvard Law scholar Lawrence Tribe is clearly suffering from a case of Histrionic Malevolence Syndrome. 🙂

    • dragin_dragon

      Good one, Z. HMS makes people come up with all sorts of odd-ball accusations.

      • There’s a long post that will appear above after it get’s out of moderation (it had 2 links in it), I’ll be really interested in your opinion.

        • dragin_dragon

          You know me, my friend…never had a problem offering my opinion on anything.

        • Here’s a link to the core of the post that will appear above.

          https://resurrectedsite.wordpress.com/2017/05/15/is-tpsd-self-evident/

          That’s just a place where I store some of my thoughts to share at a later date.

          • dragin_dragon

            You might be on to something. I have noted a tendency towards irrationality in our liberal friends, as well as a tendency to deny reality. I couldn’t address the sleeping issues, but several of the symptoms of TPSD seem congruent with PTSD. Although they also share many symptoms of psychosis, megalomania and/or grandiose ideation (as on the manic end of bipolar). However, you’ll never be published in a peer-reviewed journal or in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual. Psychologists tend to think that they and they alone can come up with new diagnoses.

            • Did you catch that the symptoms I posted were copied and pasted directly from the Mayo site with absolutely no changes?

              What surprised me was the similarities between the the posted symptoms of PTSD and what I’ve been seeing from the left when I talk use my TPSD phrase. I think there’s currently a mass Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) problem in the political left in general but specifically with the anti-Trump resistance.

            • Perhaps punch it up a bit as in ‘it’s not so much what you say as how you say it’ kinda thingey?

              Since 11/08/2016, Lefties (most, not all) have been in dangerously immersed in a hysterically catatonic/apoplectic, pillow-biting, mouth-breathing, bed-wetting, sweaty-palmed, poopie-panted, jibberish-slobbering, in-tongues-speaking, weenie-whiny, simpering-whimpering, third-rail-embracing, complete metaphysical, emotional, existential, psychological, philosophical, full-throated, freaking out, monumentally melting down, catastrophically collapsing, total free-fall.

            • John Billingsley

              An excellent analysis Zoltar. I concur pretty much with my colleague dragin_dragon. The primary stress for TPSD seems to have been witnessing Hillary lose exacerbated by the repeated stress of being exposed to horrible things like people actually exercising the right to freedom of speech. This seems to hit them as hard as being run over by a garbage truck full of pussy hats. I’m sure the sound of Trump’s voice induces extreme flashbacks. Just imagine the nightmares they must suffer when a “good” illegal alien is deported.

              Not mentioned in the Mayo article is another symptom of PTSD which is also present in TPSD and that is dissociation. This can be depersonalization, feeling as if “this is not happening to me” or derealization, “things are not real.” Victims of TPSD almost always embrace both of these symptoms as a way for their brains to create a “safe space” and make the real world go away.

              • John Billingsley wrote, “An excellent analysis Zoltar.”

                Thank you.

                John Billingsley wrote, “Not mentioned in the Mayo article is another symptom of PTSD which is also present in TPSD and that is dissociation. This can be depersonalization, feeling as if “this is not happening to me” or derealization, “things are not real.” Victims of TPSD almost always embrace both of these symptoms as a way for their brains to create a “safe space” and make the real world go away.”

                I agree, it’s missing.

                Now here’s me sticking up for the Mayo Clinic; I think the symptom listing is more of a “dumbed down” list without much for details or professional jargon, it would just confuse most of the public accessing the website. Words like dissociation, depersonalization, and derealization just blow straight over the heads of most people, sure they get a general feel for it but they really don’t understand it.

                • John Billingsley

                  I agree that the Mayo Clinic is clear and easy to understand and includes all the major features. I think we can get around the jargon in this case by using the slightly less technical term “JPN”.

  8. The eminently fetching Diogenes Sarcastica/MFNS (Middle Finger News Service) weighs in with an interesting perspective.

    http://www.diogenesmiddlefinger.com/2017/05/doctors-report-serious-injuries-due-to.html

  9. Wayne

    He looks so sad! The anti-Trump hysteria has turned him into a full blown idiot at least as far as politics are concerned. I would hope that he would consult a psychiatrist to help rid him of this disorder. Otherwise he might wear his underwear on backwards as some sort of a protest.

    • dragin_dragon

      He kinda looks like someone just dropped a bowling ball on his foot.

      • Other Bill

        No, it’s the “Hey! I’m one really smart, serious-assed academic and a lawyer for God’s sake who’s committed all these books you see behind me to memory. So, if you’re in a jam, I’m your man.”

        • If we’re going to go down this road (kinda petty but kinda fun) then I’m going to weigh in and you’re clearly both wrong.

          He’s in his safe place and that’s the default look of disgust when someone has the gall to interrupt him in his safe place. I probably look like that when someone walks into my music room when I’m practicing; kinda like “what the fuck do you want now”. 😉

  10. Chris

    I can’t find much to disagree with in this article, except that Alec (not Alex) Baldwin is often very funny, despite being an idiot. Though his Trump impersonation has worn thin for me; Melissa McCarthy’s Sean Spicer continues to be hilarious.

  11. fattymoon

    Lawrence Tribe… Keith Olbermann… http://video.gq.com/watch/the-closer-with-keith-olbermann-here-s-how-trump-could-already-be-prosecuted

    Gee, can’t wait for Jack’s response to Trump’s latest gaffe. (you know what I’m taking about, yes?)

    • fattymoon

      Aside… feel free to pile on this one… Hillary Clinton Starts Onward Together, a New Political Group I’ll be happy to join in the fish guttin you folks do so well. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/us/politics/hillary-clinton-onward-together.html

    • fattymoon,
      Spend a couple of minutes and go through that video from Keith Olbermann and count how many times he uses the words/phrases like could be, accused, if, theoretical, theoretically, possible, potential, why, essentially, maybe, perhaps, what, what if; that’s quite a list of words/phrases that tuck the video and its contents nicely into conspiracy theory territory and it should be treated as such.

      Conspiracy theorists take some facts, ask some questions, and make conclusions based on the multitude of what if’s that they fabricate, not the facts.

      Political hacks like Keith Olbermann are intentionally trying to gin up partisan hysteria by focusing on the fears of those suffering from Traumatic Political Stress Disorder and feeding those fears with a never ending stream of anti-Trump propaganda.

      Just because we the people have the right to say whatever we want, does not make that what we say right.

      • fattymoon

        Zoltar, … Jack, you, me, and practically everyone here uses those modifiers. We could start calling out each other here, but, ahhh, let’s just decide that’s the way it is and, probably, always will be… here and on other online discussion sites.

          • fattymoon

            Why thank you, Zoltar. You’re soooo sweet. BTW, you are staying abreast of the bombshell that dropped in the past couple hours, yes? If not, do your homework.

              • fattymoon

                Really, Zoltar. Do your homework for a change. This is the last time I’m going to spoon feed you.

                “Trump asked Comey to end Flynn investigation: report” http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/333702-trump-asked-comey-to-end-flynn-investigation-report

                Ball’s in your park. (Don’t worry. I know you and Jack and some other sycophants here will do their best to spin… again.)

                • I don’t spin. Don’t say that again. If I refuse to accept the biased framing of every incident to support the effort to undermine our elected leadership because it delays the progressive agenda—and that’s Trump’s real “crime,” That is applying objective standards even when they support someone who I have concluded is horribly unqualified for the job he holds.

                  “Hey, Jim, can you wrap up this stupid Russia investigation? You know it’s only a Democratic plot to slow down our agenda, right? The news media loves it because they hate me, but it’s garbage! It’s a witch hunt! Come on!”

                  “No. Sorry.”

                  Big deal. That’s not a crime; that’s not Nixonian. It’s not surprising; it’s not sinister; it’s typical. It’s nothing, especially if Trump in fact has nothing to hide. The only thing remarkable about it, as opposed to thousands of informal communications every President makes that would be embarrassing if leaked is that it was leaked. But watch the news media go nuts.

                  When you start acting like the news media regarding Trump, ethics alarms should go off. Really.

                  • fattymoon

                    Sorry. You spin. And so do all the people here in your camp. You make excuses. You ignore what’s in your face. You are enablers. And you are (again) on the wrong side of history.

                    • I mean it. I like you, but don’t impugn my integrity here. Insisting that a elected President must not be run out of office by a collaboration of the news media and an angry ideological undemocratic mob is not enabling anything. It is defending Constitutional democracy, and I would take the same position for any President, even a worse one.

                • fattymoon,
                  Screw your homework smear, asshole; I just got home and hadn’t seen the reports yet. There is life out there that doesn’t involve Trump and this blog; well at least I have a life outside those things.

                  No fattymoon, I’m not going to spin it as you so boldly predicted; if the report if factually true then then it’s disturbing. The New York Times is not exactly a bias free media outlet, their far from it, so right now this is another unsubstantiated accusation; there seem to be a shit pile of unsubstantiated accusations being slung around these days.

                  Personally I’ll do like I always do, I’ll wait for real proof so until then, innocent until proven guilty.

                  • fattymoon

                    Got your dander up, eh, Zoltar? Disturbing? Did you actually type out the word disturbing? Well, now we’re making progress.

                    asshole? You think that registers even a tiny synapse in my brain? Nope. Go ahead, call me more names. I fucking love it. Go for it. You will feel so much better.

                    Bye bye Trump hahahaha!

                  • fattymoon

                    Not impugning your integrity, Jack… however… we are engaging in political arguments, yes? Then… to engage in spin control (as in politics). That’s all I see here. From you, and from the majority of your guests here.

                    Spin is gaining traction here, and in Trump’s White house, as in spinning one’s wheels to make futile efforts to achieve progress… that’s The White House, yes? And, you’re telling me that this lack of progress is the media’s fault?

                    You said, “Insisting that a elected President must not be run out of office by a collaboration of the news media and an angry ideological undemocratic mob is not enabling anything.”

                    And I say this… I insist that this elected President be run out of office because he is unstable, unpredictable, and a lethal weapon just waiting to go off. Undemocratic? How do you figure? Is impeachment undemocratic? How about if he simply resigns the office?

                    It’s funny how you an I have changed. (You’ll probably disagree, but here goes.) Remember when Trump was in the first stages of his campaign. I said I liked him. I enjoyed him shaking the establishment tree. But when he came out for torture, I quickly changed course. Since then things have gotten immeasurably worse. You, on the other hand, made many derogatory statement about Trump. And now you’re, what, defending him? Oh, no! I see. You’re defending the office of the Presidency. Well, so am I. I am defending the office of the Presidency from an incompetent jackass.

                    Hey, I like you too, Jack. We can agree to disagree, and yet I stand firm in my beliefs. This emperor wears no clothes and neither you nor your supporters here will change my mind.

            • If you really think that is a bombshell, you need help.

              • fattymoon

                No. The Donald needs help. Big time.

                (Reposting this cause this is the way it is.)

                Let’s be clear. Trump is a goner. Reason? The leaks. Why the leaks? Because Trump has made so many enemies in little over a hundred days that they (whoever they are is up for grabs… maybe the intelligence community?) are out for the kill. So, my friends, get used to it. Leaks. Every day. Leaks. Trump can’t stop it. It’s his own fault. Good riddance.

                • Hey Zeus Alou!!!! Yer ALL IN on this, am I right?

                  Any Plan B?

                  To wit: for arguments sake, let’s say this is just another of Lefty’s myriad stoned-wood-nymph-dancing-around-the-fire-chanting-at-the-moon-pipe-dreams & fails to meet the spittle-flecked slobbering oh-so-fervent hope of The Donald’s ultimate demise.

                  Any folks near who might coax you in off’n that precarious ledge, ease you off the basement beam from which you’re modelling self-induced cervical ligature, or drain that warm tub and cauterize the hemorrhaging veins you’ve opened?

                • A completely unethical comment. The leaks are unethical, and often illegal. This is, again, the Left wanting to overthrow a President by illicit means. No President deserves that.

                  You are an anarchist. I get it. Talk about being on the wrong side of history.

                  • fattymoon

                    Yes, in my heart of hearts, I am an anarchist. I abhor American politics. I’d throw 99 percent of our politicians in prison. Awww, hell, I’m just a dreamer.

                    • Fattymoon, you are a traitor. How dare you propose to leave ANY, let alone 1%, politicians out of prison?!?

                    • The key word used by Fatty was “ENABLER.” You see (but he doesn’t) that it is the duty of every American, no matter who they voted for or what policies they prefer, to come together and try to help every President succeed, along with the nation. We are supposed to be “enablers.” It’s called patriotism, loyalty, and good citizenship.

                      The growing culture on the Left is to have no such loyalty to nation, Constitution or office. They are loyal only to ideology, and that makes them corrosive to politics, the culture and democracy. And that is what we are seeing right now.

                      I will “enable” any President over that.

                    • fattymoon

                      Fattymoon, you are a traitor. How dare you propose to leave ANY, let alone 1%, politicians out of prison?!?
                      Awww, slickwilly, I’m just too big hearted for my own good, is all.

    • fattymoon wrote, “Gee, can’t wait for Jack’s response to Trump’s latest gaffe. (you know what I’m taking about, yes?)”

      Which gaff specifically, there are so many?

      • THIS ^^^^

        He is not a politician. He is also a spoiled brat, with no emotional control. The ‘Julie’ principle

      • fattymoon

        This one… The shifting explanations of Trump’s Russia disclosures http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/may/16/shifting-explanations-trumps-russia-disclosures/

        White House Press briefing 2 p.m. Eastern today. Grab your popcorn.

      • fattymoon

        Jack wrote… “The key word used by Fatty was “ENABLER.” You see (but he doesn’t) that it is the duty of every American, no matter who they voted for or what policies they prefer, to come together and try to help every President succeed, along with the nation. We are supposed to be “enablers.” It’s called patriotism, loyalty, and good citizenship.

        The growing culture on the Left is to have no such loyalty to nation, Constitution or office. They are loyal only to ideology, and that makes them corrosive to politics, the culture and democracy. And that is what we are seeing right now.

        I will “enable” any President over that.

        Me… My duty is to the country, not the office of the President. Demonize the Left all you want, Jack. (I’m neither left nor right. I probably dissed Obama more than Trump, but that was over his second term when I realized he was a snake-tongued traitor to the country.)

        I sport no ideology. I go with morals. Ethics comes second with me. Morality comes first.

        • That’s self-deceiving nonsense, FM. The President is the head and the symbol of the nation: you can’t partition them like that, and “morals” have nothing to do with it. This is a rationalization for saying that because the democratic process chose someone you really, really don’t want to have as President, you are morally justified in undermining his authority and undoing the election. That false and intellectually untenable argument makes every President vulnerable, and the Constitutional government impossible.

        • fattymoon wrote, “Me… My duty is to the country…”, “I sport no ideology.”

          I don’t believe a word of this self proclamation. The routine comments posted by this commenter simply do not reflect these concepts. The commenters routine comments show that he doesn’t understand the totality of what he just wrote. This is egotistical tunnel vision.

          fattymoon wrote, “I go with morals. Ethics comes second with me. Morality comes first.”

          It’s clear that this commenter doesn’t understand ethics but I’m not too sure this commenter fully understands his own morals principles, he seems to look and judge outward as long as it falls within his scope of hate but his own words show that he doesn’t apply the same moral judgement upon himself. This commenter shows signs of moral hypocrisy especially when those morals are related to politicians.

    • When Larry Tribe has to count on the support of Keith Olbermann, you know he’s in trouble.

      The other matter: not worth a post, at least not yet. 1) We are taking the word of anonymous sources over the word of the White House. That never makes sense. 2) The President has that power; this was no crime. 3) I will stipulate that the President is inexperienced and incompetent. I expect these things, and those who voted for him took the position that they are willing to accept this, and its inevitable consequences. In fact, I HAVE stipulated that. More than once.

      • Hillary was the only other choice, and (reluctant) Trump voters knew she hated us. She said so…

        • Chris

          I remember a huge reason we were told not to vote for Hillary was that she may have left classified information vulnerable to Russian hackers.

          Trump voters said this, and then voted for a guy who just gives classified information to the Russians.

          The irony is delicious.

          • Only if you don’t understand the difference between accidentally giving information to whatever foreign power who happens to get it, and a President exercising his unquestioned power to reveal what he feels is beneficial to reveal.

            That doesn’t mean that the President’s action was competent or wise, but it is nothing like inadvertently exposing secrets to hackers.

            • Chris

              This is wild spin, Jack. You’re arguing that giving classified info to people who shouldn’t have it intentionally is worse than potentially giving classified info to people who shouldn’t have it accidentally. That is nuts.

              • Chris

                Ack. *better,* not worse.

              • Who says it’s “people who shouldn’t have it?” Chris, hard as it seems to be for you, you don’t know what POTUS knows, and he has the job. It’s his call. Meanwhile, This was ONE nation, and the POTUS decided to forward specific information. In breaching security and putting all communications at risk to any hostile foreign power, the incompetence of Clinton is infinitely more dangerous.

                • Chris

                  If this instance of sharing intelligence had been planned and proper, we wouldn’t even know about it, Jack. The only reason this was leaked in the first place is because it was unexpected and improper, and everything about the White House’s reaction since further proves that. “Who says it’s ‘people who shouldn’t have it?'” Seriously? Fucking everyone.

                  • Chris,
                    All you do is make idiotic assumptions; I’m fucking done talking to a idiotic political hack like you.

                    Bye idiot.

                    • fattymoon

                      Hey man, was that nice? I mean, like, are you impugning?

                    • Chris

                      I’ve stopped reading most of your replies to me, Zoltar, since I can’t remember the last time you responded with anything substantial and insult-free; I welcome your decision to stop responding to me, since your responses have of late been completely useless. I hope you’ll stick by this decision.

              • Chris wrote, “This is wild spin, Jack. You’re arguing that giving classified info to people who shouldn’t have it intentionally is worse than potentially giving classified info to people who shouldn’t have it accidentally. That is nuts.”

                Your level of ignorance is what’s nuts. You literally know nothing about what you’re talking about and it obvious and yet you just continue to spread illogical and ignorance.

                Try taking off your industrial-strength weapons-grade thickened anti-Trump blinders once in a while.

          • Foreign nations share classified information all the time, sometimes they even share Top Secret information, this is not the bombshell as it’s being portrayed as.

            For your information Chris, there is a HUGE difference between intentionally sharing classified information with a foreign nation as opposed to having classified information vulnerable to foreign espionage; in the first case you know that the foreign nation knows it and you can observe their reactions to the knowledge; in the second case you proceed as if they don’t have the knowledge even if they do – BIG MISTAKE! Have you ever heard the phrase “loose lips sink ships”; that phrase is specifically addressing sharing classified information with anyone not permitted to have the knowledge and the senior leadership does not know the information was shared causing the senior leadership to proceed as if the information is still classified and unknown to the “enemy”. The choice of senior leadership to intentionally share classified information is done with full knowledge that the information has been shared and senior leadership does not proceed as if it is still unknown outside the known inner circle of knowledge.

            The only irony that exists in this case is in the mind of an illogical person.

      • Chris

        1) The White House did not deny that Trump shared classified information with Russia. They denied minor details, some of which were not even reported.

        2) Yes, it’s been established Trump has the power to declassify whatever he wants. That’s the problem. Trump clearly cannot be trusted with that kind of power. He may have placed a source in danger due to his boasting. There are ethical, legitimate ways to remove him from power; we just need to muster the will to do so.

        3) See above. There is a solution to the “inevitable consequences” of Trump’s stupidity. Let’s implement that solution.

        • The solution is an election. Wait for it. There is no Constitutional means of getting rid of an elected President because you think he’s an idiot, whether he is or not. Have you really been so misinformed by “resistance” lies and nonsense that you don’t understand this?

          • Chris

            Jack, there’s no real definition of “high crimes and misdemeanors.” When the president’s idiocy threatens our democracy and our national security, I think that could qualify. But it’s up to Congress. Maybe the fact that most Americans do not trust the president, and in fact one poll shows a majority favors impeachment, will get them moving. But we can’t afford four years of a president who thinks it wise to share classified information just to prove that he’s the best.

            I also take further issue with your number 1, that it doesn’t make sense to trust anonymous sources over the White House. Of course it does. The White House keeps lying. They said the Comey firing had nothing to do with Russia; Trump proved the anonymous sources right a day later. The same thing happened in this case; WH spokesman denied the WaPo story, and now Trump has confirmed it. Believing anything the White House says at this point is the mindset of a rube.

            • There are plenty of definitions, and every objective authority agrees it must at very least involve “crimes.” The question is only what kinds of crimes, and how serious. You just confirmed what I know and have been saying: the Left just wants to reverse the election, and if it permanently makes any President vulnerable to a biased and partisan media assault taking him down, fine.

              Ugh. I have a long post explaining this, and I really don’t have the energy today. You’re making it mandatory.

              • fattymoon

                Trump goes off script, hilarity ensues.

                “The Washington Post on May 15 reported that Trump had betrayed the confidence of a highly secretive intelligence-sharing arrangement and jeopardized an intelligence source by disclosing details of an unfolding ISIS plot to Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Ambassador Sergey Kislyak in a May 10 visit to the White House.”

                “”It was during that meeting, officials said, that Trump went off script and began describing details of an Islamic State terrorist threat related to the use of laptop computers on aircraft,” the Post report states, adding that Trump also revealed the ISIS-held city where the source gleaned the intelligence, which was considered “code-word information,” one of the highest classification levels.”
                http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/may/16/shifting-explanations-trumps-russia-disclosures/

                • fattymoon

                  So, if/when you read the whole thing (above and linl to story) why does The White House feel it necessary to spin spin spin? C’mon Jack…

                  • Lots of reasons why they spin, some better than others, none justifiable.

                    1. It’s a clown act. Nobody knows what is true and what isn’t.
                    2. They are paranoid, and with good reason. They know the news media is out to get them, no matter what they do.
                    3. The fish rots from the head down. The President doesn’t comprehend what truth is. He spins all the time. It’s how he thinks.
                    4. Every administration has done this for as long as I can remember. Obama’s more than most, but the news media refused to call him on it most of the time.

                • fattymoon wrote, “Trump goes off script, hilarity ensues.”

                  Who says Trump went off script?

                  Do you know what the script was?

                  • fattymoon

                    Knowing Trump, there was no script. And if there was, well…

                    • fattymoon wrote, “Knowing Trump, there was no script.”

                      Nonsense. When a President meets with a foreign dignitary there’s always an agenda, outline, or script if you wanna call it that.

                      fattymoon wrote, “And if there was, well…”

                      Just another assumption.

                    • fattymoon

                      Simple, yet complex.

                      Brad Heath‏Verified account @bradheath 5h5 hours ago
                      More
                      White House reaction cycle
                      1 – It never happened
                      2 – POTUS tweet
                      3 – It happened; NBD
                      4 – Nobody cares but you
                      5 – No more questions on this

                    • Nope. There was never a categorical denial. The denial was that anything was done that endangered allies or revealed sources.

                      It’s obviously something to care about.

                    • Substitute ‘facts come out’ for ‘tweet’ and this same list applies to Hillary’s campaign, and Obama’s Administration as well.

            • crella

              “Maybe the fact that most Americans do not trust the president, and in fact one poll shows a majority favors impeachment, will get them moving.”

              I read CNN shaking my head yesterday. A headline along the lines of ‘Trump’s (popularity) numbers should terrify Republicans’.

              CNN, all the news services and social media have done NOTHING but bash Trump from the day of Inauguration forward, and a good deal of it is tabloid level cheap shots, like that repeated photo (freeze frame from video) of a ‘selfish’ Trump going in the White House door first on Inauguration Day, when if you watch the video, a split second later he stops and guides her ahead of him. How about all the photos on CNN and many other sites purportedly showing Michelle Obama being inconvenienced by Melania’s gift at the White House? (I won’t even go into Facebook and Dan Rather, George Takei and Robert Reich).

              ‘Gotcha!’ ‘Look at this dunce!’ day after day…we’ll never know what happened at that meeting of black leaders because of Conway on the Couch…you realize that not one word of that meeting ever appeared on the news? Trump meets with 30-40 black leaders…well, what did they discuss?

              I never thought he had the temperament for the job (and possibly the intellect…but as I don’t know that much about him, I reserved judgement on that aspect) but what I can say is that it is impossible for any one human being to be wrong 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. There has to be some good being done in this Administration, but we’ll never hear about it.

              And they are now aghast at his low trust ratings!? How dare they!

          • If there were a way to get rid of an idiot, Obama would never have lasted 8 years. 57 states, bitter clingers, and starving school kids to save them!

  12. fattymoon

    Let’s be clear. Trump is a goner. Reason? The leaks. Why the leaks? Because Trump has made so many enemies in little over a hundred days that they (whoever they are is up for grabs… maybe the intelligence community?) are out for the kill. So, my friends, get used to it. Leaks. Every day. Leaks. Trump can’t stop it. It’s his own fault. Good riddance.

  13. fattymoon

    Let’s look back at Jack’s post from March of 2016.

    March 28, 2016

    An Ethics Alarms Audit: Who Or What Is At Fault For The Rise Of Donald Trump?
    This text is bold.
    Speaking of the rise of Trump you wrote, That’s how populist uprisings always start, and Noonan properly diagnosed this one. Still, it was neither pre-ordained nor necessary that the individual such a movement would unite around had to be such a dangerous, unstable and unworthy one, or that the citizens supporting him would display such complete absence of logic and responsibility.

    Bismarck famously said that “There is a Providence that protects idiots, drunkards, children and the United States of America,” and at times it has seemed that way. When the nation’s management failed, the U.S. has been astoundingly lucky. When it has been unlucky, brilliant leaders have been on hand to manage the problem. The Trump phenomenon illustrates the fact of existence that luck eventually runs out: so far, bad luck and bad management have joined forces to produce the threat of a Donald Trump presidency.

    You wrote in 2011… Unethical U.S. Presidential Candidacies: Is Trump’s the All-Time Worst?
    As the United States faces some of the most difficult challenges in its history, Trump has chosen to use the nation’s process of deciding on its leader for his own ego gratification and self-promotion, without preparation for the job, deference to fair campaign rhetoric, or acknowledgment of his own fatal flaws as a candidate. Exploiting his status as a media celebrity in a celebrity-besotted culture, as well as the news media’s lack of discipline or principle, he is opportunistically advancing his candidacy on the lack of credible GOP contenders, using tabloid headline tactics. …Ignoring the fact that the statements of high-profile presidential candidates have international consequences, his few policy positions have included reckless and irresponsible answers…Donald Trump is perfectly happy to make a mockery of the presidential nomination and election processes while distorting them too. If he manages to convince enough fools to vote for him, hell, sure…he’d have a blast running for President. If his run peters out, it’s still worth lots of publicity, and increases the value of the Trump “brand.” …[He]is intentionally appealing to the worst in 21st Century American character: fear, celebrity worship, ignorance, and materialism. Meanwhile, every second of attention his candidacy distracts from serious consideration of our nation’s leadership reduces the chances of the public doing its hardest and most important job carefully and competently.
    “…a repulsive candidate like Trump…”
    “…a loud-mouthed, intemperate boor like Trump…”

    I am tempted to write that if Trump did nothing else but stop the flow of illegals from Mexico and killed the odious “Dream Acts” which make law-breaking by Mexican parents appear to be a noble act of love, it would be worth putting up with all the other horribles a Trump Presidency would visit on our nation and culture. Sadly, it would be a bad bargain.
    From a competence perspective, the Republican Party chose poorly by assuming that Trump would be a flashy attraction to get the party’s debates ratings and nothing more. Their approach could have “worked,” but because of all the other randomly colliding factors, didn’t. i will point out again, however, that I suggested at the very beginning that the party need to assert its integrity by formally rejecting Trump’s candidacy, as they could then with minimal mess. Now the party has to do it at the convention, if at all.
    First the news media gave Trump constant coverage and free exposure and publicity for being outrageous (Ratings!), then it used false equivalencies to minimize the substantive distinctions between him and his legitimate GOP opponents (since journalists regard one Republican as bad as another), and finally it was soft on Trump because liberal journalists see going through him as Hillary’s easiest path to power.
    Fox and especially conservative radio talk show hosts have been fueling resentment and anger against the political establishment in increasingly ugly and excessive terms for years, nurturing Trump’s core without suspecting whom it would rally behind. Sean Hannity regularly gave Trump fawning interviews; Mark Levin conditioned his audience with exactly the same kind of boorish, uncivil, low-brow hateful rhetoric that Trump revels in. Rush Limbaugh, to his undying shame, has chuckled over Trump’s rise upsetting “the drive-by media” and breaking through political correctness barriers, while refusing to condemn his obviously irresponsible and destructive candidacy.

    I find it hard to reconcile Jack’s past remarks with his current defense of Trump.

    • Then you are blind. It’s not hard, and nothing I have written since contradicts any of that. Will someone else explain this to fatty?

      • Jack Marshall wrote, “Then you are blind. It’s not hard, and nothing I have written since contradicts any of that. Will someone else explain this to fatty?”

        You’re faced with anti-Trump blinders; you could explain it for a week of Sunday’s and he still wouldn’t get it. I hate to say it but neither fattymoon nor Chris are worth any extra effort anymore. I’m no longer wasting my time talking to these kind of people, but that won’t stop be addressing their arguments in general terms. The Julie Principle simply doesn’t work for that kind of tunnel vision mindset.

        • fattymoon

          Worth any extra effort? You mean you thought you had a prayer in hell of swaying me? Ok, put the shoe on the other foot. I know I don’t have a prayer in hell of persuading you or Jack. But… without us outliers, you guys would just be talking to yourself. So get used to me cause I’ll be shoving it up your nose until the day Trump is gone. You know you like it.

  14. fattymoon

    David Gergen weighs in on impeachment.

  15. fattymoon

    My confirmation bias as delineated by David Pell…

    “Even after the performance of the last week; the avoidable gaffes, self-inflicted wounds, bad decisions, poor judgment, and utter incompetence, there are still some who argue that there is a vast bias against Donald Trump. Well I’ve got news for them.”

    “They’re right.”

    “Many people and organizations are biased against the president. Understanding that bias gets one a long way towards understanding the massive failure of this presidency.”

    “The media is biased against Donald Trump. He’s earned that bias time and again. He has maligned the media, invented stories, lied during interviews, repeatedly made false claims of false news. He has damaged the reputations of journalists in America and put those abroad at risk with the foolish and reckless decision to label journalists as the enemy of the American people. Every politician knows the first rule of governing is not to make an enemy of the media. It was stupid move by Trump. The first of many.”

    “Rule two of governing is not to make enemies among the intel community. The intelligence community is biased against Trump. And he’s earned that bias over and over. He has publicly questioned the patriotism of various agencies, and he even compared them to their counterparts in Nazi Germany.”

    Read the rest here… https://medium.com/@davepell/the-relentless-bias-against-donald-trump-185c3a5bf734

    • “There are still some who argue there is a vast bias against Donald Trump!!!!!!!!”

      How can you serious present as any kind of authority such a manifestly ridiculous statement?

      Incredible. Don’t insult my intelligence while insulting your own.

  16. fattymoon

    Jack, I have no idea what your point is. Wanna explain?
    Meanwhile… Why Trump should be very afraid of James Comey’s memos https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/05/16/president-trump-should-be-very-afraid-of-james-comeys-memos/?utm_term=.5d65b846dec0

    • So far, there is nothing at all reliable that we know about the alleged memos. No physical evidence, and hearsay testimony by an “anonymous source” that the news media expects us to accept as fact, because of its bias. This kind of article is just rumor-mongering, and no objective or responsible reader should treat it as anything but. Moreover, even Comey’s memo isn’t evidence. It’s how he remembers a meeting and conversation. If the other party to the conversation remembers it differently or says he remembers it differently, then there is nothing to “fear” from the memo either. See, yiu are ruled by confirmation bias: all anyone, even an anonymous anyone, says something negative about Trump, you believe it, because you want to.

      I know you’re smart enough to recognize this, and I wonder why you don’t.

  17. A new malady awaits entry into the DSM:

    T.U.R.D. or Trump Unacceptance Resistance Disorder

    http://www.diogenesmiddlefinger.com/2017/05/media-suffers-from-trump-unacceptance.html

    I find odd that this wasn’t the result of the creative genius responsible for the extensive Zoltar Speaks! Dictionary formerly known as the ‘Urban Dictionary.’

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