I am putting up these two Comments of the Day by johnberger2013 and Steve-O-in NJ together, not because the aren’t each worthy of a separate post, but because they both involve the flap over the Donald Trump-Billy Bush video, which has become a sub-ethics train wreck to the already out-of-control Donald Trump Candidacy Ethics Train Wreck, and I want to put it in my rear view mirror as soon as I can. Its noise is drowning out a virtual tidal wave of new information about how horrifying corrupt the Democrats have been (and are), and the public should know the utter ethical depravity of both the administration that is leaving and the one that is on the way. To be forewarned is to be forearmed, after all. If the news media keeps trying to hide it, at least Ethics Alarms can do its part to counter their efforts. It’s just a few thousand people a day, but if they tell two friends, and they tell two friends…well, it’s something.
First, though, let’s try to finish “Pussygate.” First, the Comment of the Day, on this post and the others on the topic, from Steve-O-in NJ:
I know Bill [Clinton] did a lot worse. He started a process of ethical rot in the White House that continues today and is best known for getting hummers in the oval office. He wasn’t the first either, with JFK having affairs, FDR being wheeled to a girl friend, and Harding getting action in a White House closet. At least these earlier guys had the sense to keep it quiet, not boast openly about it, and not advocate not just frat boy attitudes, but criminal activity. I heard this kind of bluster and worse when I was high school age (one of my contemporaries boasted that he’d like to cut off a woman’s breast and suck on it). I haven’t heard anything like it since I was 22, and I haven’t openly or otherwise used a vulgar term for a woman’s genitals since I graduated college, not in conversation, not in joke, no way. Full disclosure, I find feminists tiresome at best, angering at worst, and I still think Hillary is a lying, conniving, power hungry grifter who will be a failure as president. That doesn’t mean I hold ALL women in contempt, nor do I see them as toys to be used and discarded. I’ve never been on so much as a first date, but I have worked with and known too many women (some good, some meh, and some pretty bad) to hold half the human race in the contempt Trump holds them.
In the end this isn’t really about tiresome sexual politics, or it shouldn’t be. This is about honor. The Republican party has held itself out for forty years as the party of honor, patriotism, and family values. Leaders like Reagan, both Bushes (the elder is sadly underrated), John McCain, Bob Dole, and so on have done their damnedest to live up to that. Others like Nixon have fallen short (in his case far short), and when they did, the party said enough is enough, you’re through. Trump never even came close. He just said what people wanted to hear. He said it despite the fact he had said just the opposite on the record many times in the past. He said it despite the fact his actions didn’t prove it out. He said it despite knowing full well he’d left a trail of damning quotes and actions over the course of forty years in the headlines.
What really sticks in my craw is that the party knew all this, and rather than saying no, this guy isn’t suited to be President, no, we won’t play with this stick of dynamite, no, he doesn’t reflect any of what we’re about, essentially sold their souls for a false promise of a victory that could never be. It’s going to be very hard to reclaim the mantle of being the party of honor and values after your standard bearer has shown that he was the valueless, honorless pig he was all along.
I spoke out against the nomination of this latter day Nero with no morals, this neo-Lopez who can’t process facts that don’t fit his worldview, this American Franco who promised honor but offered tyranny with the thinnest veneer of honor on it. Others did too. No one listened, or, more likely, the right people listened and heard, but were too afraid to act or thought they could control or co opt Trump to become one of their club.
This is where that line of thinking ends. No, Trump isn’t Hitler or an orangutan, or any of those other stupid and juvenile insults people think they are so witty to throw. What he is is unfit, and enough see that fact that he will never see the inside of the White House save as an invited guest.
Now the COTD from johnberger2013:
Forgive me, Dear Ethics Alarmers, for I have sinned. It has been one week (give or take a few days) since my last comment. And in the last week I accuse myself of not being as horrified by Trump’s most recent comments as I should.
I have tried, though. Really. I tried. God knows I did. I read the transcripts. I listened to the video tape. I have consulted Rachel Maddow, Gloria Steinem, and a host of other exalted people much more in tune than your lowly, misinformed commenter.
But I failed, and I failed ‘uge: I just can’t find it in my being to declare that this is the final straw.*** How is the video anymore insulting than any of the other idiotic things he has said and done in the last year-and -a-half? Is it because he openly declares that he is pig? He ridiculed a disabled reporter at a campaign speech, for the love of Pete. That was bad but this video banter between two morons on a bus somehow removes all doubt about his qualifications? Please.
And those of you now asserting that he is admitting that he sexually assaulted women, give me a break. I have no trouble believing that Trump considers/considered it ‘locker room talk’. That is because Trump has the impulse control of a ten year old. Yes. Some guys talk like that. Well-adjusted men don’t, though. Why? It is unbecoming of a real man because talk like that is juvenile, immature, and undignified. Guys over the age of 18 who talk like that are simply buffoons, who somehow feel they need to increase their self worth by talking about their sexual prowess. Most mature guys find it annoying. Rest assured, ladies, real men don’t talk or act like that. They learned from their fathers that such behavior is rude and crass, and they learned from their mothers that women are not ‘turned on’ by it. They learn and they grow up.
Many a pundit has gnashed his or her teeth, frothed at the mouth, shaken a head in dismay, and declared outrage that such vile thoughts still exist today, perpetuating the rape-culture so prevalent in modern society. Many a Republican rent a garment because they either have wives, daughters, mothers, grand-relations, neighbors, or know someone who has many of the same. Many have called on him to resign (yeah, sure, like that’s gonna happen). Paul Ryan withdrew an invitation (and apparently conceded the presidency to Hillary Clinton while pledging to make sure Congress remains Republican, which seems a bit extreme to me, but the GOP must attone for its sins against women for nominating Trump as its candidate), Mike Pence stopped ducking questions about the video and issued a statement declaring his offense, and NBC suspended the news personality because he failed to stop Trump right in his tracks.
Yet, somehow this is the most important news story. I had an emergency fishing trip so I missed the debate last night (I hate fishing, so that should tell you how much I wanted to watch the debate). I hear tell that more than 30 minutes were spent on this topic. One-third of the time to decide that Trump is a male-chauvinist pig. Oh. That could have been established in two minutes, three tops. Yet, 27 to 28 more minutes were needed. Good grief. Trump demonstrated months ago that he has neither the maturity, the temperament, the dignity, or the strength of personal character to be charged with the responsibilities attendant to the Presidency. The GOP blew it at the beginning; it is too late for the GOP to stop the hemorrhaging at this point. Reince Preibus is wholly responsible for the GOP’s woes and the ensuing misery. It will take election cycles to repair the damage Trump has done and will do to the Republican party. In Texas, there is an expression: “When you lie down with dogs, you get fleas”. Oops. To paraphrase the Good Reverend Jeremiah Wright, “Your chickens have come home to roost”.
jvb
*** Truth be told, that final straw happened a few months ago when he openly declared that his comments about Rosie O’Donnell were justified AND justifiable. It seemed horribly inappropriate and unprofessional and unseemly for a person running for the highest executive office in the country to target a ‘private’ citizen for ridicule in a nationally televised debate, especially when it continued a stupid, irrelevant, and unimportant private feud between two equally loathsome cretins. I closed my Trump book at that time and I haven’t reopened it (and now I can’t reopen it because I am using it to level out my dinner table – if I took it out my table would collapse).
Ethics Alarms 
I am humbled by the honor.
jvb
Not much new here. Trump is a pig and my seventeenth choice in the Republican primary which is saying a lot considering my loathing of Jeb Bush. Still I absolutely cannot vote for Hillary who is as corrupt a candidate as the nation has ever seen and cannot open her mouth without commiting an ethical violation. I think I’ll sit this one out.
Your decision, of course. I don’t see the virtues of leaving an important decision up to people who are less informed and intelligent than you are, though.
I think I will pass over the top spot myself. I would own the disaster that a Trump would become and I will not put my imprimatur on the corruption that is Hillary.
Write in.
Then after HRC is elected, keep her feet to the fire.
You and what army of journalists?
Trump is indeed a pig…but I keep missing the part where he’s advocating for sexual assault, or advocating “rape culture” (whatever that is). His exact words were: “When you’re a star they let you.” They let you. Isn’t “they let you” the textbook definition of consent? So where does the rape part come in? He was talking from the standpoint of a privileged rich guy who is used to women allowing him to take liberties — but that speaks equally to the women giving that consent, doesn’t it? And when Trump actually had a human interaction with the women he’d been talking about, he was perfectly respectful, from what I saw on the video. This pearl-clutching is way, way, way, way, way overblown, and perpetuated by an obviously biased media, which somehow forgot to cover the other news which broke on that Black Friday — emails that gave a peek into Hillary’s plans for open trade and open borders.
I generally agree, but it’s hard to argue that “grab them by the pussy” isn’t at least an endorsement of the spirit of sexual assault.
It is, and that spirit is rich/privileged jerk talk combined with high school age sexual bravado. Totally unbecoming in anyone who’s older than an undergraduate, and that includes athletes (concentrate on the game, huh?), musicians (being able to fill a hall doesn’t entitle you to fill your appetites with others), emergency services people (your job is to protect ass, not kiss it, but not CHASE it either), and elite military members (whose only conquests should be this nation’s enemies), but only worthy of worse discipline than a stern talking-to for repeat offenders (you get warned ONCE) or those who try to take it a step further than talk (no excuse).
Unfortunately Trump smacks too much of the privileged bully who never got beaten up or the libertine who never had a girl toss her hair and leave him sitting at the bar looking like a fool. Do you really want the jerk who gave you wedgies after gym class or slammed you up against the locker running the country?
Remember this: The people who nominated Trump also nominated and helped to elect the current Republican office holders, and the Republicans are acutely aware of that.
None but a mule denies his family.
Trump’s constituency and the conservative/Tea Party constituency have some overlap, but they are distinct. Lots of union, blue collar Democrats in Trump’s corner; also anarchists, and idiots, of course. Lots of conservatives aren’t idiots. Far from it.
Wouldn’t this 11 year old video of someone who was not in public office at the time be similar to this story? https://ethicsalarms.com/2015/05/29/anyone-who-tries-to-use-a-43-year-old-essay-to-smear-bernie-sanders-is-an-unethical-jerk-and-you-can-tell-them-i-said-so/
Interesting comparison. That post was about Bernie writing about rape fantasies. The differences are:
1. 11 years is a lot more recent than four decades.
2. Writing about something and talking about what you say you do are not equally indicting
3. Bernie’s current conduct, attitude, rhetoric and demeanor do not seem consistent with the old article, while Trump’s conduct on the video is completely what we should expect.
Lots of conservatives are actually very wise, although to read the mainstream media you would think we were all dentally/mentally challenged, obese, mouth-breathing rednecks. It’s a lot of the wise and honorable ones who are deciding at this point they’ve had enough or who didn’t support this foolishness from day one. Unfortunately those who waited until now are paying a price honor-wise because it requires pulling an endorsement or breaking a promise. Paul Ryan waited until too late in the game and Reince Priebus painted himself into a corner, or I don’t doubt they’d be moving toward the exits too.
Those swearing they will vote for Trump and then ignore every down-ticket race in retaliation for the recent “Rexit” are truly idiots. They will not put him in the White House and they will give Hillary a blank check to pass whatever agenda she wants AND probably get a second term, since Ryan is likely to come out of this too damaged to put the party back together again. This is not going to be the Goldwater loss that gives us Nixon (talking about the scale of the win only, not what followed), as the Great Society crumbled under LBJ, or the Ford defeat that opens the way for Reagan as Carter found that he was in over his head. This is going to be the last ashes of the fire lit in 1854, from which no phoenix will arise, and the US will be a very large Sweden before the next generation is born.
Lots of conservatives are actually very wise, although to read the mainstream media you would think we were all dentally/mentally challenged, obese, mouth-breathing rednecks.
To be fair…
1. The fact that there weren’t enough smart Republicans to stop Donald Trump from being nominated supports their theory.
2. Sean Hannity.
3. Ben Carson. Is ANY Democrat or liberal as embarrassing as Ben Carson?
4. The fact that the news media typically finds the dumbest or most extreme conservatives to put on the air.
5. The unfortunate strain of anti-intellectualism and anti-science sentiment coming from conservatives.
6. Statements like the one about how the body rejects rape sperm…
…and things like that.
6. Two stupid statements by two stupid people – guilt by association.
5. In response to the equally unfortunate strain of anti-theism and intellectual snobbery coming from liberals.
4. Media bias, and people buy it hook, line, and sinker.
3. Bernie Sanders – pretty darn close.
2. Martin Bashir, Bill Maher, and a few others.
1. Ya kinda got us on this one – although a divided field of 16 working against a media that was pushing Trump and a fanatical core of supporters made it tough to stop him. If the field had been only say, 5 candidates, I think it might have played differently.
This definition should be available in the Urban Dictionary soon.
Presidential Trumping: the “too good to be true” perfect storm blowing the the opposition candidate into the White House with the steady pounding force of a hurricane.
They didn’t like that Presidential Trumping definition so I presented them with Trumpaigning which they accepted; I had to get the definition for perfect political storm approved first so I could link to it in the Trumpaigning definition.
Steve wrote: “Lots of conservatives are actually very wise, although to read the mainstream media you would think we were all dentally/mentally challenged, obese, mouth-breathing rednecks. It’s a lot of the wise and honorable ones who are deciding at this point they’ve had enough or who didn’t support this foolishness from day one. Unfortunately those who waited until now are paying a price honor-wise because it requires pulling an endorsement or breaking a promise. Paul Ryan waited until too late in the game and Reince Priebus painted himself into a corner, or I don’t doubt they’d be moving toward the exits too.
“Those swearing they will vote for Trump and then ignore every down-ticket race in retaliation for the recent “Rexit” are truly idiots. They will not put him in the White House and they will give Hillary a blank check to pass whatever agenda she wants AND probably get a second term, since Ryan is likely to come out of this too damaged to put the party back together again. This is not going to be the Goldwater loss that gives us Nixon (talking about the scale of the win only, not what followed), as the Great Society crumbled under LBJ, or the Ford defeat that opens the way for Reagan as Carter found that he was in over his head. This is going to be the last ashes of the fire lit in 1854, from which no phoenix will arise, and the US will be a very large Sweden before the next generation is born.”
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I wonder if it can be accurately said that American Conservatism is in a state of collapse. There are people who certainly say that. They say that American Conservatism is no longer ‘conservative’ and can best be described as the slightly-to-right of the American Left. I think a case could be made that this is so.
I understand (I think) ‘Constitutional Conservatism’ and I think I would place Jack in this camp, and Jack I think defines the political orientation of the Blog as a conservative one. It is surely a ‘conservative’ trait to be able to think clearly and reason well in my view. But good reasoning is not a possession of the Conservative Right. Yet after over a year reading here, and absorbing a great deal of new information (as well as getting generally insulted by some members) I have come to see that Jack himself, at least to my understanding of things, may be somewhat convservative in some areas, but his political ideology is not significantly different from the general *liberal* position.
What seems to happen is that as the Progressive-Left goes more toward the extremes that progressive thought allows and encourages, the more sensible liberal faction begins to appear like the Right Wing.
Then, there is the Republican Party and also I think (in my not-so-well-developed perhaps understanding) the Neo-Cons. Can these people, taken on the whole, really be said to be ‘conservatives’? I think that the Neo-Cons might be described as traitors if one wanted to get a little rhetorical on them. An argument could be made that it is this Neo-Con/Conservative/Republican faction as a group which has made choices which are not ‘resounding to the benefit of the Republic’. I have at times thought that these Neo-Cons and many years of ‘Conservative’ policies provoked the 9-11 Attacks. And if that is so then someone must be made responsible for a political and a national evil. And it MUST be openly said that the Neo-Con subservience to Israel needs to be deeply analyzed. In this sense these Neo-Cons, judged by the future, may turn out to be described literally as traitors.
If this is ‘Conservatism’ then I don’t think I want a part in it.
I cannot even understand what ‘Conservatism’ even means now. And that is where the term ‘Cuckservative’ has come to be coined. But who is the one that coins the term? And what are their politics? Well, they are what American Conservatism and the American Right and Far-Right were at one time, at least sort of, but they got purged. And as the ideological cleansing took place, so-called ‘conservatism’ became little more than leftism’s helper. Essentially, there is no left-value that the American Right does not also profess.
If this is so then there is a void in American politics. All there is is the Centrist Party, serving all those interests that we are aware of, and then there is The Fringe where, of course, all the ideas are ‘unthinkables’. Whatever they think, however vague and undefined and badly-founded in solid and articulable political and social philosophy, everyone still seems to understand, and very well, that ‘Trump’ as social and political phenomenon is *calling out* (or down) to these people.
Anyone who has read my writing (‘gross’ as Chris has said) knows that I understand and articulate, or try to, a philosophy that is forbidden and rejected. (And this is one reason, I suppose, why I am roundly rejected and insulted).
But be that as it is, I think my point holds. That the Conservative Party has simply melted down and can do little more than join up with its Elder Progressive brothers in one way or another. Or actually define a real, toothed, articulate right-leaning conservatism. (And if I said that this will have to be done by those of European descent you’d immediately grasp 1) where I am coming from and 2) the radicalness of the proposition.
But I assert that this is the ‘right’ that will begin to concretize itself, with (and likely) without Donald Trump.
Alizia Tyler said, “I wonder if it can be accurately said that American Conservatism is in a state of collapse.”
I disagree; I think the Republican Party is what’s in a state of collapse.
The Democratic Party is defined by what the core ideologies that are driving the party just like the Republican Party. If Progressives were to rebel against what they see as a party heading down the wrong path and actively run away from the Democratic Party, that doesn’t mean that Progressivism is in a state of collapse, it means that the Democratic Party is in a state of collapse.
I think American Conservatism is alive and well but in search of a new political outlet; because as it stands now, the Republican Party has been bastardized by wildly flowing rivers of Trumping idiots spreading Trumpism which has redefined the Republican Party to be the new Trumplican Party and setting up the conditions for a Perfect Political Storm to hand over the reigns of Government to the Democratic Party for the foreseeable future.
Oops, two incomplete tags in that comment that make them not functional. Arrrgh!
Trumping
Trumpism
I think I see your point. How do you define Conservatism?
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This propaganda video very nicely points out the path that has been established for the so-called ‘Conservative’. It is perfect insofar as it illustrates exactly what a Cuckservative is and also how cuckservatism is nothing more than the slightly to the right version of modern American liberal-progressivism.
From my POV it shows how deadly and powerful such propaganda pieces can be. They work with the emotions and not really with ideas, and they show groups of people who are shown in the act of being seduced.
In my view this shows exactly — it restates really — that both the Republican Party and American Conservatism has been fractured and defeated. There is no option left for it but to agree to the role assigned to it: little obedient brother of the reigning political system.