Comment Of The Day: “Gee, Would It Really Have Been So Hard For Democrats And The News Media To Just …Wow.”

Spartan (“Sparty” to her friends) is a D.C. area lawyer  and professional woman, was well as the mother of girls. Thus her observations on the travails of women in the Halls of Power have special interest.

Here is Spartan’s “Comment of the Day” on post,  Gee, Would It Really Have Been So Hard For Democrats And The News Media To Just To Admit That Rep. Richmond’s ‘The President’s Female Counselor Looks Like She’s Used To Giving Blow-jobs’ Joke Was Wrong, Period? Apparently So. Wow:

I am going to criticize Ms. Conway for a minute, and I hope you all bear with me.

I am a career woman and, in fact, am the breadwinner for my family. Jack’s sister and I probably could exchange endless stories about the challenges of being a successful white collar female. I accept this as a fact in my life and recognize that I am held to a different standard without being bitter or loud about it. I did not wear red and stay home today despite the protest. In fact, I was supposed to be out of the office for meetings all day but deliberately came into the office so there would not be a presumption that I was taking part. I do not wear low cut dresses or stiletto heels. I do not sleep around the office — and never have.

This background is leading up to a larger point, which is this: I have to hold myself out as a professional at all times and not give others the opportunity to mock me for my gender and/or sexualize me in the work place. I am not only doing this for myself, but I do it for other women who are trying to climb the corporate ladder. This horrible joke by Congressman Richmond (and he should be loudly condemned for it) occurred because of that crazy way Conway was sitting in a dress. As professional women, we can’t ever give men that kind of ammunition. If I walked into any professional meeting and saw a subordinate sitting like that, I would correct her on the spot. If the meeting was with anybody important, forget about the President, she would be fired.

So yes, Congressman Richmond will never get my vote for this comment alone — it was one of signature significance. But Ms. Conway? Stop it. I am still reeling from your outfit on election night — it looks like one of my clubbing outfits from my twenties. You don’t have to go buy dowdy pant suits, but please dress and act like a professional. You have an amazing and powerful position in the White House — please respect the responsibility that comes with that job. I was taught to cross my legs in a dress by the age of 8 — as my mother used to say, “Hit the cymbals!”

32 Comments

Filed under Business & Commercial, Comment of the Day, Ethics Alarms Award Nominee, Etiquette and manners, Gender and Sex, Government & Politics, U.S. Society

32 responses to “Comment Of The Day: “Gee, Would It Really Have Been So Hard For Democrats And The News Media To Just …Wow.”

  1. How far do you carry that criticism, though? Nobody would make that joke about Albright, or Pelosi, even if they were in hot pants and in a contortionist’s pose. In her Kellyanne Fitzpatrick days, she was a common guest on political talk shows, and memorable in part because of her youth, beauty and cheerleader vibe juxtaposed with being a Republican pollster. Her body language was flirty; her voice and mannerisms girllish, and it seemed natural. I’m also certain, given her clientele, that it was a career plus. I think I’ve mentioned here the time a stunning blonde female attorney (who was also a model, a body-builder, a harpist, and an ex-cop) asked me if it was unethical, when she knew an elderly judge was infamously partial to attractive women, to dress in a little tighter a dress with a little bit shorter a skirt and a little more cleavage in court, because she knew he would be eating out of her hand. And I said, “Go for it.” She said that her male colleagues and even her female ones would be critical, and I said: “Your job is to win for your client. If that helps, then use it.”

    KellyAnne obviously follows this theory. Does using her unique assets to get pigs like Trump “eating out of her hand” mean that she deserves sexist jokes?

    • Jack asked, “Does using her unique assets to get pigs like Trump “eating out of her hand” mean that she deserves sexist jokes?”

      That’s a fair question and the ethical answer is clearly no.

      If a person actually says she deserves the jokes based on her actions and appearance they are using unethical rationalizing to try and “justify” their unethical personal attacks.

  2. Bad Bob

    As much as I in general agree with Spartan’s comment, it also strikes me as a “she deserved to be raped” comment (too strong, I know…).

    I’ve often said (probably wrongly) that professionalism is getting the job done right, not the goofy comments I often make along the way to accomplishing same.

    Nothing about Trump’s presidency will be the “normal” fare we’re used to and it doesn’t surprise me that Ms. Conway would be an extension of that.

    Unusual behavior shouldn’t beget crass behavior.

    • Rusty Rebar

      Yeah, I got a whiff of this as well. Should we ask these professional women to wear a special outfit, so as not to tempt men to make lewd jokes about them? Maybe we could call it a Burka or something…

      I know that is a bit hyperbolic, but I find the idea that women should have to be responsible for the sophomoric actions of their co-workers to be appalling. That is not saying that wearing your club outfit to a professional job is acceptable, but Ms. Conway was not doing that. She is not dressed inappropriately, and as I am sure any number of Hollywood stars can attest, anyone can get a compromising picture, it it is taken at the right (wrong) time.

    • carcarwhite

      I can’t agree more!

      I’ve been a professional woman my entire career, and in some places things are more casual than others. Some would never even try to shoot a photo… so they’d miss out… but she did. Big deal!

      I think this is so hypocritical! OK, so women CAN dress like sluts and NOT be responsible if they are “sexually harassed and assaulted” (via comments like “wow you look good”, etc????) and it’s the MAN’S fault and women hold NO responsibility when they do that… but SHE because a still shot taken from a video of her snapping a photo, she is now the one RESPONSIBLE because people who hated her have to find something to criticize and putting her feet on the couch wasn’t enough??????

      Seemed like she was trying to stay out of the way… context people!!! Sigh… this makes MY head explode!

      AHHHHH… I am ashamed of women and their double standard on this!!!!

      And this… “This horrible joke by Congressman Richmond (and he should be loudly condemned for it) occurred because of that crazy way Conway was sitting in a dress. ” no that is NOT the reason! it did not occur because she gave them that opportunity! I think she was trying to get out of the way, and not be in the other shots, and get some of her own. Big deal she knelt for part of it???? ugh. I don’t get how that is crazy.
      So it’s her fault he made the joke??? No, it’s not.

      And about her clothing… You may not like the Gucci outfit designed by arguably the freshest designer to come out of Gucci in decades, (I like his other things much more than the one she wore) But taste in clothing is subjective and top designers are often praised. (unless a Republican wears them)

      I hated when they made fun of Hillary’s clothing too. People have their own styles. BIG DEAL. ugh.

      I can’t even believe this became a story at all. Shows how pathetic and irresponsible our MSM has become.

  3. Ms. Conway could certainly use a little brush up on how to be a professional in a way that exemplifies professionalism and not sexism. Unfortunately like Trump and others that surround him needing the same brush up, it ain’t gonna happen.

    • It ain’t going to happen because of the exact same reason: it has worked. Why in the world would someone who has succeeded to a spectacular extent change their methods? That might be the wise thing to do, but it is so counter-intuitive that literally nobody does it, unless there is something that makes them understand that a new approach is required.

      • Jack Marshall wrote, “Why in the world would someone who has succeeded to a spectacular extent change their methods?”

        That’s pretty much why I said “it ain’t gonna happen.”

        It’s human nature that we learn how to behave based on reactions and when we are after a specific kind of reaction we tend to act in a way that has a proven track record of producing the reaction; to change a behavior, the reaction to the behavior must change. Again; the change must begin in us.

  4. “I am still reeling from your outfit on election night — it looks like one of my clubbing outfits from my twenties.”

    Wait: you wore something like THAT in your 20s??????

  5. wyogranny

    Aren’t liberal women the ones who are supposed to be saying things like, women deserve respect no matter how they are dressed or how they act? The first time I heard the term “slut-shaming” I’m sure it was in the context of feminist rants outlining:
    Men=evil rape culture
    Women=do whatever you want society must accept us as we are.
    Even to the extent of parades and demonstrations with women wearing well…nothing basically….
    Suddenly I feel so dizzy.
    Dun….Dun….Dun….
    The tables have turned

  6. Pennagain

    If we (say: men and women) are to promote civil discourse and improve our behavior to the point of mutual respect if not accord — I didn’t say it was possible at the moment; just musing — then adjusting to the appearance of modesty would be advisable, if not the norm. The rules of etiquette are clear: when one happens upon a woman unfortunate enough to be in an indecorous pose, one simply averts his glance, hides his smirk behind a stifled cough, and spends the remainder of his time inventing a lascivious limerick about her with which to regale his fellow members at The Club. If the rhyme is clever enough, it will reach the ears of her father, brother or husband and they will be sure to bring the indiscretion to her attention. She will gladly modify her posture, thus saving her reputation and not drawing the man into an unseemly situation.

    [After eating clam chowder from hollowed out sour dough bowls, I sometimes take fits which cause me to channel “Mrs. Melbourne.”]

    I will not split hairs with Spartan; I believe she has defended her position in this particular case. Ms. Conway has a private stance, a way of dressing, of speaking, of holding her body, for instance; she also has a professional one; another that she uses in the company of other women; and a fourth, a public one that apparently could use a bit of readjusting – her responsibility! – if she doesn’t want to take the consequences of that “appearance of impropriety.” If she doesn’t care, then we — the readers, the watchers, the listeners without whom the media would not exist shouldn’t give a fuck either. What a stupid waste of time and attention! Pardon me, I must be off to my club. tra la tra loo…there once was a….

    • crella

      ” The rules of etiquette are clear: when one happens upon a woman unfortunate enough to be in an indecorous pose, one simply averts his glance, hides his smirk behind a stifled cough”

      This. Whether male or female, when someone does something inappropriate or embarrassing in public the polite thing is to pretend you didn’t see it, and speak to them privately later, if it’s somethng that affects their job (rather than something like an unfortunate digestive tract issue) .

      Since this hit the net, I have wondered why the photos were taken of her at all…in the one of her looking at her phone, she’s the focus of the shot. Was this a ‘gotcha’ shot? Even if it wasn’t, why publish the photo? The photo of her leaning off the couch to get a shot on its own would not have caused the stink the other photo did. If you’re photographing an event and catch someone in an embarrassing pose, that one goes in the discard pile when you compile the event photos for public comsumption. Professionals don’t embarrass their clients. Who knows who took it, though? I still think that the same rule applies, even if it was a random staff member.

      • carcarwhite

        Thank you. That’s what we have done in my line of work and whole life for that matter.

        If/When Jack on this blog does something which makes him look bad, I sure would write him privately and bring it to his attention.

        I have LOVED when people pointed something out to me which in often the excitement of being caught up in the moment, I break a social rule, I am thankful.

        Frankly, the authenticity, thought very overboard is a bit refreshing. I’d be giddy as heck to have been with that crowd in the oval office!! I’d probably have been taking selfies with them in the back 😉

        • crella

          I photograph family events and conferences we attend, just because I like to. Not a professional photographer by any means. People are always pleased to get pictures! I’ve gotten some weird expressions/poses on film, but they are always deleted. Do unto others…

    • Bad Bob

      Pretentious BS. Nothing more than a lyrically phrased “She deserved it”. “…if she doesn’t want to take the consequences…”

      If a guy had thrown his jacket on the back of the couch, put a knee on it, (my “chauvinistic” rough equivalent) and started taking cell phone pics, we might still say “hey, I think the decorum of the office is such that…”, and maybe someone should’ve said as much to Ms. Conway; to crella’s point, why didn’t the person who snapped that pic refrain, or instead say something?

      The software we’re all typing on was likely created by somebody who wore shorts and a Hawaiian shirt to work – is he (again, my old school chauvinism?) any less capable than the blue suit IBM types?

      Yes, I believe the office should be “more professional” given what it is – but to say that her posture on the couch created an “appearance of impropriety” is nothing more than your like-mindedness with Rep. Richmond.

  7. Wayne

    I’d really hate to see her in a Hillary pants suit. But it works for Hillary because she is definitely a senor with an annoying voice. I wonder how it will go over in NYC when she runs for mayor.

  8. “I did not wear red and stay home today despite the protest.”

    There was a protest?

    • There was a spectacularly stupid and classist “A Day Without A Woman” protest, along the lines of the earlier, equally stupid immigrant protest. As Ann Althouse pointed out, the protest was only focused on men, and women never spend a day without a woman, being one. It was just another anti-Trump tantrum, and these things are now in Julie Principle territory: fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly, Trump gotta make stupid tweets, and hypocritical juvenile progressives gotta protest an election their candidate lost through dishonesty, incompetence, arrogance and bad luck.

  9. Nice comment by the way.

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